by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Umarex Forge.
This report covers:
- What we know
- Say hello to my little friend!
- Today’s test
- JSB Exact RS
- Rested on the bag
- Was this a fluke?
- Air Arms Falcons
- Trigger report
- RWS Superdomes
- H&N Baracuda Match 4.50mm heads
- Evaluation
- HOWEVER
Today we begin seeing how accurate the Umarex Forge is. Many of us are holding a lot of hope for this air rifle, because so far it seems to have the stuff of greatness. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if there was a fine air rifle priced where this one is?
What we know
To this point we have discovered several things. The power ranges from 12.8 to 14.5 foot-pounds. So it’s probably a solid 14 foot pound gun with the right pellet.
The trigger is 2-stage and breaks very heavy. I will discover more about the trigger when I shoot the rifle for accuracy today.
We know that the cocking effort is 26 lbs., which is light for a gas spring. It’s entirely suitable for the power this gun puts out.
We know that the barrel pivot is a bolt, which means the barrel can be tightened for no slop. I did that to the test rifle when I examined it. That’s good for accuracy and for consistency. We also know that the forearm screws come from the factory with blue Loctite on them. That tells us that whoever built the Forge cares about the details. Too bad they couldn’t influence the trigger a little, but at least they are trying.
Finally there is the overall appearance of the rifle. It has style at a time when the stocks on most budget airguns appear to have been made from the same bland pallet wood. Clearly, somebody cares about this Forge. Let’s find out if we should be included in that group.
Say hello to my little friend!
For years I’ve been putting an American dime in my pictures of shot groups, to use as a reference. For those to whom this coin is unknown, a check on the internet reveals that it is nominally 17.9mm (0.705-inches) in diameter.
A dime is a small coin, but is there anything smaller? Yes, there is. The silver three cent piece, colloquially known among coin collectors as the “trime”, is 14mm (0.551-inches) in diameter, and also thinner than the dime. It’s the smallest silver coin ever issued by the United States. I have long wanted to show you groups so small that I had to use a silver three cent piece instead of the dime as a reference, but I thought that would have to wait for a 10-meter target rifle report.
The U.S. silver three cent piece (right) is the smallest silver coin ever officially issued by the U.S. mint.
Nowhere on the silver three cent piece does it say what the coin is worth. People had to know some stuff, back in those days!
We snicker at a three cent piece today. Who cares about such a small amount of money? Apparently not the millennial cashier at the restaurant I went to last week, who asked me if I wanted my 27 cents change from my purchase! I thought there was a charity box at her register and she was asking if I wanted to donate, but she just couldn’t be bothered to pull that many coins from her cash drawer. Girl, if you want to see an old man do deep knee bends, drop a penny on the floor!
Some people have never heard of the two-bit beggar who would not accept a five dollar gold coin when his other choice was a shiny silver quarter. He may never have had a million dollars, but he had more money when he died a century ago than most people today will ever see! He was a popular attraction at a great many bars, where patrons could not wait to show their friends his strange begging interests.
The point? Money is money.
Okay, enough stories. Back to today’s report. Why would BB show you a coin that’s even smaller than a dime? [At this point in the report I can hear the Umarex USA marketing team running up and down the halls of their headquarters in Fort Smith shouting, “We got one!”]
Today’s test
The Forge has open sights (hurrah!). I decided to use them to make my life easier, so today I shot 5-shot groups from 10 meters with the rifle rested. That’s right — FIVE shot groups! Why? To find some pellets that seem to be accurate, so when I mount the scope and move back to 25 yards I won’t have to waste my time.
JSB Exact RS
For no reason other than something had to be first, I selected 5 JSB Exact RS pellets. I shot these at 10 meters, using the artillery hold with my off hand rested on the sandbag and out as far under the forearm as I could comfortably reach. The pellets landed below the bull so I could see the hole in the white target paper (that’s right — I said the HOLE — as in singular). It seemed to grow slowly as I shot. At the end I looked through my spotting scope that careful readers now know is a pair of high-quality Zeiss binoculars. I saw what looked like a cloverleaf in the paper. It measures 0.245-inches between the two holes farthest apart! Ft. Smith, you may now pop the cork on that bottle of champaign you have been chilling. I am not yet ready to make my pronouncement about the Forge, but if I did it would rhyme with “world-beater.”
Five JSB Exact RS pellets landed in 0.245-inches at 10 meters. The dime and silver three cent piece are both shown for comparison.
Rested on the bag
Okay, we have a live one! What’s next? Well, somebody will want to know if you can just rest the rifle directly on the bag, so that was what I did.
I shot the same JSB Exact RS pellets and again, just 5 shots. The rifle was rested directly on the sandbag. The five pellets landed in a vertical group that measures 0.604-inches. I guess the Forge does not like to be rested. Listen to me — I’m criticizing a 0.6-inch group! But it did raise the question of whether the first group was just an anomaly. Could I do it again?
Resting the Forge on the sandbag gave this vertical 0.604-inch 5-shot group at 10 meters.
Was this a fluke?
I settled down for a second go at shooting a group with the JSB pellets. I adjusted the rear sight higher and shot a second group of JSB RS pellets with the same artillery hold as before. This time 5 pellets went into 0.407-inches at 10 meters. I guess the Forge can really shoot! From this point on, all groups are shot with the artillery hold described in the beginning. Let’s try it with a different pellet.
Yep, the Forge is still accurate! Five JSB Exact RS pellets in 0.407-inches at 10 meters.
Air Arms Falcons
The second pellet I tried was the Falcon from Air Arms. Five landed in a 0.344-inch group. Oh, my! The Forge likes two pellets! Better open another bottle, Ft. Smith.
Five Falcon pellets went into 0.344-inches at 10 meters. The Forge likes two pellets.
Trigger report
I said I would tell you more about the trigger today. Well, it is still too heavy. Nothing can change that. But it does break cleanly and I don’t think it’s a hinderance to accuracy. I would like a lighter trigger, of course. I just don’t think it would help the accuracy.
RWS Superdomes
The next pellet I tried was the RWS Superdome. You will notice that the group is mostly on the cardboard backer, because it hit the target lower than the first two pellets. Five Superdomes went into 0.528-inches at 10 meters, so the Forge is still doing well, though I probably won’t recommend Superdomes as a first choice.
Five RWS Superdomes went into 0.528-inches at 10 meters. This heavier pellet landed lower than the first two.
H&N Baracuda Match 4.50mm heads
The final pellets I tested were H&N Baracuda Match with 4.50mm heads. They landed even lower on the backer board, because they are even heavier. This was the first pellet I would not recommend in the Forge, as 5 went into 1.149-inches at 10 meters.
Five H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.50mm heads went into1.149-inches at 10 meters. This is not the pellet for the Forge.
Evaluation
I didn’t expect accuracy of this level from the Forge. Of course I always hope something like this will happen, and apparently it just did.
HOWEVER
Remember — these were only 5-shot groups today. They will grow in size when the next 5 pellets are shot.
There is also still a scope to mount and a 25-yard accuracy test to conduct. The scope that comes with the Forge is a 4X32, so it may not do all that we hope. If I feel that is the case, I will follow up with an additional accuracy test using a better scope.
I will reserve final judgement on the Forge until after seeing what it can do at 25 yards. Today’s test fills me with a lot of hope. The Forge offers a lot of features at a price that is so reasonable there can be no objection. The stunning accuracy we see here is the crowning glory for any airgun and I am so glad we saw it with this rifle.
“Girl, if you want to see an old man do deep knee bends, drop a penny on the floor!”
I laughed out loud.
The next Forge post (and the one after, with a known scope) is my most anticipated one since George’s Diana.
The Forge is much prettier than the Swarm, I hope it is as accurate. I am completely unable to estimate the 25 yard 10 shot groups from 10 yard 5 shot groups.
Sean,
My best guess is groups running 0.8-inches to an inch. But I don’t know anything for sure, other than two pellets to try.
B.B.
Umarex,
If you are reading this, please bring the Forge to the Texas Air Gun Show so that we can all try it out ourselves.
Belgrath04,
I can bring this one. It will be under my tables.
B.B.
That would be fantastic.
After seeing and shooting the Diana 34 I brought home last year, both of my brothers will be joining me on the road trip up from Houston to the show this year.
Belgrath04,
Well, then, there is another rifle you should try. Ask me about it at the show. The key phrase is “Did you get it?”
B.B.
Sean
I have been here everyday reading all the blogs and comments and keeping up with things. I just have not gotten a good opportunity to go out to my range with my Diana 34P to shoot some groups to show the commenters how my rifle shoots for me following B.B.’s review and tune. I can’t take the heat and humidity so I have to wait for a nice cool day to shoot. I promise though, I will get it done soon. If I don’t do it soon maybe some of the folks will have forgotten the story behind my post. Have a great day!
Geo
Geo,
Thanks for the update. I have been wondering. I am with you on the heat and humidity. Shade and box fan can go a long ways, but I have my limits. Keep us posted. Chris
Hi Chris
Well, today the temp was 84º but humidity wasn’t too bad so I got my shooting table out of the barn and setup my target at 25 yards and began shooting some 10-shot groups with the RWS 34P.
I’ve got to say, this thing kicks my butt. I shot about 120 shots in 10-shot groups. My groups were too terrible to even post a picture….1 1/2″ to over 2″. I was able to hit the 1/2″ bull a few times but then some of my pellets were 2″ or 3″ from the bull too. I’m so frustrated with this thing I could just spit! Nothing that I do helps. Artillery hold…off hand back by trigger guard…off hand forward 3″ from trigger guard….hold a little tighter….a little looser…NO JOY.
I bought two tins of RWS Superdomes (500 pellets). If I can’t get this rifle to shoot well for me by the time I’ve shot all 500, it’s going into my gun cabinet as a keepsake. My hope was that with the new scope mount and B.B.’s determination that the Superdome pellet is best for this rifle, I could post some pictures of decent groups. I guess that isn’t going to happen though. Still struggling.
Geo
Hate to hear that. Was hoping things would work out for the best.
I wish I could be there to see how you shoot. Too bad you couldn’t record a short video and post it. I’m really thinking it’s got something to do with how you hold the gun and how steady.
Hello GF1
Glad you saw my post to Chris. I should probably have posted at the bottom so everyone would see it in retrospect. Yeah, I was hoping for a better outcome also.
I just can’t figure out what I am doing wrong. I am trying to use the exact same hold as B.B. described in his review, holding the rifle loosely with the heel of my forehand touching the front of the trigger guard and resting on my shooting bag. I have a pretty steady hold and try to follow through as well. B.B. has proven the rifle to be very accurate, and in his hands it appeared to be. I do wish he had shot more groups though because the first time he shot the Superdomes with open sights, his results were more like mine and he was not impressed with the group. I’m not second guessing his results and I am sticking with the Superdome pellet. The problem appears to be me. Maybe my expectations are too high for this rifle with me shooting it. I’m pretty tenacious and will continue trying to shoot good groups but at some point I’m going to have to through in the towel and move on to something I can shoot.
Geo
I should say that the rifle was not resting on the bag, my hand was. B.B. advised me to NOT rest the RWS 34 on a bag.
Geo,
I take it that rear/butt is on your shoulder (not supported) and the front is on your hand/bag. If so, try this,….
Find something (solid) that will be a rest under the pistol grip. Use whatever you need, but make it steady and solid. My front rest is hard and 6 1/2″ tall topped with foam gasket. If I choose to support the rear,.. under the pistol grip,…. I use a polish can with a full 500 tin of pellets taped to the top,.. about 4 1/2″ high. From that, I can add some hard sheet rubber 1/8″ shims to get the sight picture on target, 1-3. That is just my set up.
Bottom line, just try a solid support under the pistol grip and (then do everything else the same). Using this concept will improve (all) groups with (all) of my guns ( 2 springers and 2 PCP’s )
I know this is (not) how you want to shoot. You are pesting for sparrows invading the Blue Bird feeders. But what it will do is eliminate/greatly reduce any wobble at the butt end, even if you think that there is none. If it works, then you know that there is a steady issue.
If you have already tried this,.. or a shooting bag under the rear/stock,… then I am not sure what else to try. If you try it and it works, let me know on the Fri. blog. Chris
Chris,
That’s a good suggestion.
B.B.
Chris
Thanks so much for your suggestions. Your analysis is correct in that my purpose for this Diana 34P is to dispatch those pesky sparrows from my bluebird nesting boxes. Even if I figure out the magical hold from my bench, that’s of no practical use to me for my intended purpose. The bench shooting only proves the rifle and pellet is capable of accuracy. But when just moving the off hand a couple inches forward throws the pellet 2″ off target, or holding the stock a little too tight against the shoulder throws flyers, I’m not sure this rifle is ever going to be practical for my needs.
I have a set of Caldwell shooting bags. The front shooting bag is larger and supports my off hand. The second bag is very small with a V that can be used to support the stock. Initially I tried using the bags to rest the rifle on. I could achieve some success in doing that, but then if I didn’t support the rifle on the bags, the POI would change dramatically. This alone made resting on the bags impossible. I learned this even before learning how to use the artillery hold.
My current hold on the rifle is to place my off hand so it is just touching the trigger guard and my index finger in the cocking slot, just as B.B. described. My trigger hand is supported on the small bag and the stock is held lightly against my shoulder. This makes the muzzle heavy and it’s more difficult to hold steady. If I move my off hand forward about 3″ the rifle becomes more balanced and is easier to hold steady but then the POI changes and the groups open up too. I’m at a loss as what to try next.
Geo
Geo
I have been tempted many times to buy a 34, but always talked myself out of it . I don’t really have much need for one and also don’t care to have another drooper problem to solve .. I have a 48 and a pair of R9s that have things covered pretty well as far as springers go in this power range . The R9s are bug killers . So is my 97k .
Getting past my wobbling is the worst part . Have to get into a braced position when not on a bench . Finding out what a rifle feels like when you hold it right is a real big part of it . Then you start learning how to make it feel right all the time .
tt
Twotalon
Glad to see that you are following the blog. You gave me several good suggestions early on in my quest for better groups from my RWS 34P. I even copied them into a word document for future reference. Yeah, I always get into some kind of braced position too, sometimes resting on the roof rack on my SUV.
Geo
I still think you need to rest the gun directly on the bag. And tighten your grip up.
When you pull the trigger don’t jerk it back. Just apply light steady smooth pressure till the shot goes off. Of course while trying to hold steady till the shot goes off.
Try it just to see. You never know.
GF1
I have tried resting the rifle directly on my shooting bag and yes, I can shoot an occasional good group. The problem is that when I shoot without resting on the bag, the POI changes dramatically. It is not practical to shoot directly off the bag. See my post to Chris.
I have also varied the pressure of the stock against my shoulder. Held too tightly and the groups open up like a shotgun to about 2 1/2 to 3″ at 25 yards. It’s crazy how much effect the hold has on the POI. It seems I am just chasing the POI around. I can actually hit the 1/2″ bull once in a while and I’m always surprised when that happens.
George that is disheartening for all of us cheering for you, and it is ten times worse for you. I really hoped BB choosing the pellet and the hold (not really concerned with the droop mount) would help you.
It is getting closer to the position that only Precharged Pneumatic rifles should be recommended as a tool. Once springers and air springers get powerful enough, they get twitchy and become hard to shoot unless you are an enthusiast putting in an obscene amount of hours.
Sean
Not true with all springers that make enough power to dispatch a pest.
I have several springers that gave repeatable results without trying. Just hold and shoot like I would my pcp’s.
GF1
I guess my Diana 34P is not one of them…
Geo
Read my response down a bit to Sean about the 3 springers I have now.
Then go to the bottom for the results.
GF1
That’s some good shooting. I’d be happy to get those groups at 25 yards! You have some very nice airguns too. I am amazed at the number of airguns some of the bloggers here own.
Geo
I’m not even going to say how many airguns I had at one time in the past.
This is me. I’ll say it now. When I do something I usually go all out. I attack it with a passion. I been that way since I was a kid. Did it with RC airplanes, motocross racing, muscle cars and even late model turbo tuner cars.
When I do something I want it to work. I want to know all about it and get results. I have a drive to get the most I can out of something.
I like exsperiancing things. And I done went and done it again.
With air guns.
GF1 that leads to the questions, “Are all examples of those guns hold insensitive or just yours?” and, “If yes, what are they?”
Sean
I don’t know about the just me part of your question as far as hold sensitive goes. There are several readers on the blog that own guns that I use to and vise versa. I would say we have all been getting similar results out of the guns.
And here is some spring guns that I have owned that have shot good without special technique. And I’m sure I’ll forget some that I had.
2 FWB 300’s, a 54 Diana Air King in .177 and .22 caliber. A .22 Walther LGU. 2 Air Arms Tx 200 Mrklll, one in .177 and one in .22 caliber. A Weirauch HW30s and HW50s in .177 caliber.
Now that’s all the good ones I had that was not hold sensitive. I had others that were hold sensitive. A Stoeger break barrel in.177. A couple Weirauch under levers. Some Hatsan underlever. A few Crosman and Benjamin nitro piston break barrels. Even a Gamo Whisper.
Like I said. There’s probably more on the good list and bad list I can’t remember right now. And like you said that’s me shooting them. But just say’n what I experienced with the ones mentioned.
I had alot of air guns including pcp’s. And yes I can say pcp’s or single and multi-pump air guns are easier to shoot than most spring guns. But as I said there is good shooting easy to hold spring guns. And again that’s me.
That’s the best I can say.
If you want a hunting power springer that is recoil insensitive, you do of course go for the Diana 54 which incorporates an artillery recoil action in it’s design. But for that sort of money “airgun as a tool” buyers would be far better off buying a pcp.
I did a quick search and some think even the great TX200 is reasonably hold sensitive unless tuned down. The key seems to be a quality gun plus low power plus high weight.
Your FWB 300 and HW30s are low powered, I wonder if they are powerful enough for pest control?
Oh well, I doubt George will ever try another springer. If he can’t tame his 34, I expect he will either let the birds fend for themselves or go pcp.
I may not be able to hit them but I can sure scare the heck out em. The sparrows seem to learn very quickly that the bluebird nesting boxes are not a good perch 🙂
Sean
Hwre is the guns I have now after doing the rodeo and thinking the heard. The Hw30s is one. It is still as it comes from the factory. It loves the JSB 10.34’s. And the next springers I have is a modified by me FWB 300s that’s shooting also JSB 10.34’s at a average of 705 fps and the last gun is a Air Arms Tx 200 Mrklll .22 caliber. It likes the jsb 15.89’s. And again modified by me. It’s shooting the 15.89’s at 760 fps.
Here this is all bench resting with the guns rested on a bag and scoped with identical UTG scopes. This is 10 shot group’s at 50 yards with each gun.
I’m going to post it all at the bottom. It will take a bit. So it will not be there yet if you look right now.
Thanks Sean. I am beginning to think you are correct in your thinking regarding a PCP as a tool as compared to a springer which has shown to be more than difficult to shoot accurately. Even if I can figure out the hold and shoot well with my Diana 34p, if I can’t apply that technique to pesting, then the rifle is of no practical use to me. If I have to shoot thousands of pellet to become proficient with a springer, then I don’t believe it’s worth the effort to me. I was really hoping for better news and pictures to show my much improved groups…don’t think it’s going to happen though.
Geo
Sounds to me like it’s time to get you a .22 Maximus. I had extra results with mine.
That should help you get a little better idea if it’s you or the gun.
I can’t really think of anything else. There has been so much talked about since you brought this up. I think it’s time for a PCP or multi-pump gun to get in your hands and give it a shot and see what happens.
This was suppose to say.
I had (excellent) results with mine.
Not. I had (extra) results with mine.
So George, you have a rifle, that shoots patterns like a shotgun, and acts like a land mine (an area denial weapon) and a nuclear missile (deterrent).
That is one versatile weapon you have there mate.
No reply button in proper place so replied here.
BB
Nice trime, I have not seen one before now.
Gopher
Gopher,
Yeah, they are wee-teeny! 😉
B.B.
BB,
Love your trime. I thought that the Roman numeral III surrounded by the C indicated 3 cents.
The groups that can be covered with the trime are more impressive than the trime. Looking forward to the 25 yard test.
Jim
Jim,
Yes, the Roman numeral III does represent three cents. But who is educated enough today to know that? Tomorrow I will show you another coin that caused a real problem the same way!
B.B.
“Yes, the Roman numeral III does represent three cents. But who is educated enough today to know that?”
Every NFL fan.
BB,
Hmmm… I can thank of a couple that created problems but my guess would be one that was minted for only a few months in 1883.
Jim
Jim,
Shhhh!
B.B.
BB,
Hopefully I didn’t give enough of a clue to spoil your fun.
BTW, if you want a coin even smaller than the trime, Mexico had a circulating centavo in the 8 mm range. I might have an extra one of those. If I do, I’ll bring you one at the Texas Airgun Show.
Jim
Jim,
I considered using the California gold quarter dollar, but there are too many fakes on the market.
B.B.
BB,
Mexico gold dos (2) peso coin at 13 mm. Not so much a problem with fakes but it was reissued using the same dies. Much more affordable that the CA gold quarter dollar. It is the only gold coin I have in my collection.
Jim
Jim,
Yep, that’s a little gem. Very well-priced.
The California gold coins were re-struck at least three times, and I don’t know how to tell the difference, other than when I see one going for $80 I know it isn’t original.
B.B.
Nope – not a Mexican Centavo. It was 13 or 14 MM. I know I still have a smaller coin somewhere. Maybe I was thanking of a Panama Pill at 10MM. Time to do some digging.
Jim
I can’t remember in which grade we learned Roman Numerals.
BB,
I just got through rereading parts 1&2. Apparently the heavy trigger pull did not affect accuracy!
Jim
Jim,
I was surprised that the trigger didn’t cause any problems.
B.B.
B.B.
Wow! I never expect that. NEVER.
What are the Chinese doing to their barrels? Do the pellets fit tight in the breech? Is the barrel choked? Normal 1:14 twist?
-Yogi
Yogi,
The Chinese have always been able to make good barrels, if they wanted to. I once tested a BS4 that copies the FWB 300 and it was just as accurate as the 300.
B.B.
BB
If they wanted too.
There is more to it than that.
But that did make me laugh. 😉
G’day BB,
My retired teacher mate used to pick up 10 cent pieces in the playground because they were “worthless” to the students after they had accidently dropped them.
Cheers Bob
Bob,
A pity I was not there! I used to be a coin-shooter (treasure hunter who looks for coins) with a metal detector. I loved finding coins! I even wrote an article about finding nickels for a national magazine. 🙂
B.B.
BB,
I’m impressed. Umarex is finally getting it right. I wonder if they designed this air rifle or are they just rebranding it?
RR,
Since the rifle comes from China I’m sure the Chinese had an input. They tell the buyer what they are able to make, then the buyer agrees to certain features and the two hammer out a price — or prices, based on guaranteed purchase quantities/timeframes.
B.B.
BB
This rifle appears to be identical to my Ruger Impact except for the metal spring power plant and .22 caliber. The length, stock, sound suppressor, sights and railing are the same I think. I just found this rifle at a pawn shop minus the scope in NRA excellent condition. Accuracy is very promising even with popular priced Crosman Premier dome hunting pellets. I wonder if they both are Chinese designed rifles. They do know how to make good rifles. My Chinese SKS is more reliable than my Russian SKS.
Decksniper
Hey sniper good to know you have that Ruger, one has been languishing on the shelf at the local big box store, and I have been thinking about rescuing it.
If it is a Ruger Impact and you decide to get it I recommend Loctite for all the screws. This rifle begs for TIAT (Tune In A Tube). In .22 caliber it should be a real problem for squirrels.
Right I thought it might be a good gun to do my first springer tune I’m working in a springcompressor right now.
Interesting, very interesting.
I’m not really looking for another rifle at the moment but I am sure that I can find some space in the gun cabinet for a Forge. I don’t even mind the glow-thingy sights 😉
I am curious if they plan to make a .22 caliber version. At 1050 fps in .177 I am guessing that that the power plant would make pretty good velocity in .22. Might be a good squirrel rifle.
Anxiously waiting for the 25 yard accuracy testing report.
Hank
B.B.
So you used to be a treasure hunter with a metal detector too. It is a wonderful hobby and there is nothing like hearing that sound that is in the silver range. Too bad you stopped but if lack of time is the only reason, I am sure I would rather see you keep this blog rolling. Love it!
B.B.
I read the blog, back can’t find about if she is hold sensitive or the firing behavior. Sorry if it’s there, I am tired, but I have looked. Just wondering as this is looking to be a world beater for sure. A surprise to me! Can’t wait for the 20 yard test.
Doc
Ok I don’t remember who suggested 5.55 H&N ftt for my Crosman Titan GP but thank you this pellet shoots best hands down. That’s why this site is so special!
Coduece,
I was not the one, but I share your sentiment. I have a .22 HW95 that has a rather large barrel bore. I use the 5.55 head H&N FTT for it also, because it was the only thing I could find (at the time) that was large enough. With those pellets the accuracy was where it shoud be at about 1/2″ – 5/8″ at 30 yards (10 shots). And the gun is capable of better groups, I am the limiting factor.
David H.
Coduece
Glad you have found the best pellet. Enjoy!
Decksniper
Definitely a surprise today with the group’s at 10 m. Will be interesting to see how groups are as distance increases.
Definitely would like to hear some blog reader reports if they get one too. If more than on gun gets similar results like today. I say it’s definitely got potential.
But right now all speculation. I guess as time goes we could see more results from BB and other owners if they get one how repeatable the gun really is.
So far so good.
Mister Pelletier,
As you’ve thus far answered my other questions about this weapon, I simply must know… is it a good-looking as all the press shots make it to be? The rose and black press pics are vintage Browning gorgeous.
Thank you for all you do!
-W
Winterz,
I think it is gorgeous. And I had some airgun manufacturers here at my house who thought the same as me.
B.B.
Sean
Here is how I hold the guns on the rest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BCE1339fg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak-5E2phnCw
Here is the scope I use on all 3 guns.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-utg-3-9×32-ao-rifle-scope-mil-dot-reticle-1-4-moa-1-tube-3-8?a=4627
Here is 10 shot group’s at the 50 yards. And a pi tire of my feild target range. There is 10 different targets. The 2 white flags and the blue flag by the 50 yard target.
Here is my shooting area.
GF1 with that accuracy starlings, let alone sparrows would be stone dead at 50 yards, let alone reasonable ranges.
You are holding the TX200 incredibly gently. Is that because of the benchrester’s “It is on target, don’t knock it off target” mentality or to let it recoil?
Beautiful range. After a butchered shot you can just look admire the view to calm yourself down.
Sean
Ya know everybody that sees a picture of my shooting area says the same. I can sit out here in the breezeway day after day and everytime I see it I feel the same way. It took me 53 years to get here. I grew up on a farm and lived in the city for about 10 years. I will never do the city again. Always been a country boy down deep in the heart forever.
And yep definitely can hit the starlings at 50 and in. Sparrows are a little tuff at 50 yards though. They are the figidiest little birds. They don’t set still for a second or more it seems.
And then comes the part where I’m not resting and trying to get them while I’m standing. No way 50 yards anymore. Even supporting the gun from a window or door frame. Then from a tree or branch. More like half the distance I need then. Yep turns into a 25 yard gun then. Even with me being on the game that day.
Bench resting at targets is a whole different ball game then standing and trying to support the gun off of something that’s actually not very easy to get steady off of.
The way I see it is I need the most accurate gun I can afford and pellets. Things just get so much harder when not bench resting.
Oh and I’m actually using a little pressure on my hold more than it looks. I do hit my second stage on the trigger. And when it stops I hold on target and just apply a steady gentle pressure til the shot goes off. And don’t know if you paid attention. But most important I balance the gun on the rest so it naturally points at the target. I just hold it in place after that.
Sparrows have apparently evolved different traits down here. On the hunt for food they are extremely twitchy, especially when hunting high protein bugs for the babies in spring, but otherwise they are willing to stand for a while.
Sean
Really. Here they are on the constant look out. Like something is always ready to get them.
Maybe I should of said skittish instead of figitedy.
Cats are the only thing with a chance to catch an awake sparrow around here, and my money would be on the sparrow.
Sean
True about cat’s here. But none running around free around here.
The Hawks are what are deadly heat. We have small medium and huge ones.
The small hawks will chase the sparrows. The medium ones sit up in trees and wait for them to be eating in the yard. They swoop down and snatch them off the ground.
The small hawks get mice and snakes. The medium ones get rabbits and sqerrials. The big ones will get all the small stuff along with ground hog or woodchucks. And chickens too.
Thinking about it now I see why the sparrows are how they are.
GF1
Geez I feel sorry for your sparrows now. George should stop harassing the poor, picked upon little fellows. 😉
In my neck of the woods the only raptor that will take birds is a peregrine falcon who prefers Spotted Doves (going by the piles of feathers on the ground) and baby plovers, which can’t fly yet.
Sean
The Hawks here do get the doves too.
Ain’t they amazing to watch though.
Do some online research about what sparrows do to the bluebirds and you won’t feel a bit sorry for them. They also attack the tree swallows that try to nest in a bluebird box. I’ve seen them fight right to the ground and will eventually drive the swallows away and take over the nesting box…that’s if I allow them to.
http://www.sialis.org/hospattacks.htm
Sort of like the Indian Mynahs which try to steal the nesting box of the Rosella’s under my carport. They have some nasty brawls.
I have been known to trap them and execute them with my bare hands. (Not allowed to shoot them.)
The picture isn’t of my resident Rosellas, but they all look alike.
GF1 the picture is of the birds I protect.
I ended up doing almost exactly what you did as a kid.
Originally I built a cage with a funnel that the birds were meant to go in, but because of the narrow pointy wire, couldn’t leave. This really didn’t work so I built an annex that had one open side and had a door ready to slide down, with a fishing line holding it up going to my window.
I put the food in the annex and released the fishing line when the mynahs or starlings were feeding. They would then jump around the annex and find the entry to the trap, go in and not be able to find their way out. I would then raise the sliding door to the annex, replace the food, and wait.
At the end of the day I would kill the birds in the trap. If there were only a few it would be by hand. If there were a lot I would put a towel over the trap and put it against my car’s tailpipe and kill them with carbon monoxide.
Sean
Yep and we didn’t have to worry about if we shot them to kill them. No law about that with pests.
But yep that was a big deal to eliminate the pest when I was a kid on the farm. Heck the sparrows would bore into the wood rafters in the barns. Next thing you know the roof would cave in. Sqerrials we’re just as bad.
Everyone,
This is a family-oriented blog. Stop describing how you kill animals inhumanely.
B.B.
BB
I see that you removed Sean’s comment about his trap he used and how he dispatched them.
That’s the comment I suppose your talking about.
But it makes it look like your talking about my comment now after removing his.
Or should you remove mine too. Do you see what I mean how it looks right now.
GF1,
I have no problem mentioning that we kill pests. It’s when we go into details about methods that are not humane that concern me.
B.B.
BB
Just wanted point that out I said we dispatched them by shooting them with air guns.
I did mention we tryed catching them out of the box with our hands but not dispatching them that way.
GF1,
Just drop it.
B.B.
Sorry B.B., maybe that was a little too graphic. But unless you’ve seen what the sparrows do to our bluebirds and tree swallows, you would not believe it. May people who are not “bird” people do not know this. When airguns are not up to the task, then more drastic measures must be taken in order to protect our native song birds. Did not mean to offend anyone.
BB
Oh I see you removed mine about the box and stick trap with a string tied to the stick and baited with bread.
I guess you didn’t think it was right to mention that I shot them after I caught them?
Well how is that any different then shooting one when your pesting or hunting?
Sorry.
Guys,
I’m not angry. I’m just trying to keep the level of discussion where a family can read it. Killing pests is fine. Just don’t go into the details.
B.B.
Since I posted some 50 yard groups above I thought maybe this would make someone think.
I shot this target tonight with the same 3 springers I shot the 10 shot group’s in the picture above the other night. Had a dead calm night tonight. No 5 mph head wind like the other night. And yes again 50 yards. And yes bench rested. I guess the next thing I need to show some groups of is not bench resting but supported braced shooting like in the woods or pesting. That will for sure show how good of shot (I’m not).
And something I really want to point out. Look at the first shot with the HW30s. It went low. It’s like it needed woke up. Or a shot fired to get the gun up to speed so to speak. The FWB 300s and Tx 200 shot normal their first shot.
The HW30s would of probably missed if I was pesting. So if it needs woke up for the first shot taken like if I grab the gun to eliminate the sparrow pest it probably is not going to be reliable and make the hit.
And from the way my one shot groups went tonight the FWB 300s is the gun that’s on the bullseye the best.
I just want to stress that’s something to look at when pesting. PCP shooters know this happens on some guns too. Definitely something to make you miss your one and only shot at that pest.
There BB. Did I do better tonight.
Here is with the yard stick.
Gunfun1,
Maybe the HW30 needing to wake up before settling down might be because it has not been shot enough yet compared to the other two in your stable. I know that it is a relatively recent purchase, but it has probably not been shot anywhere near as much as the FWB300 or the Tx200.
Maybe that could be a long term test for anybody. Do springers get more accurate as they are shot?
Siraniko
Siraniko
Would like to think that about the HW30s. But the Tx 200 is newer than the HW30s. So can’t go by that theory.
Some guns need it. My HW50S was the same way.
And you say more accurate. Do you mean that they group better or that first shot being different than the rest goes away and it shoots the same the first time you pick the gun up and shoot on a different day.
I already know the answer to that question.
Gunfun1,
I mean as the an airgun is shot more, the parts become more settled in leading to increased accuracy as the gun “ages”. Of course this is only theoretical on my side. As a shooter keeps shooting the same gun day in day he also contributes to the guns increasing accuracy.
Siraniko
Siraniko
I did say I knew the answer.
Yes from what I seen the gun does get better as it shoots.
But that first shot thing kind of seems to stay with the gun.
But with spring guns if I changed the piston seal or spring or the preload on the spring. That first shot characteristic changes too.
It’s about the fit of the seal and the compression the piston makes. Some guns spike higher on power on their first shots. Some have blow by or loss of compression on their first shot.
Then think about this. And I’m talking the more conventional synthetic seal. What happens if you put a couple drops of silicone live in the transfer port hole to keep your piston seal from drying out and dragging in the bore.
When you do that does your gun shoot like it use to or does it spike or fall off then stabilize.
Again I know the answer to that question.
Gunfun1,
From previous posts I’m thinking that it would spike after putting in a few drops of silicon oil before it settles down.
Siraniko
Siraniko
Yep but not as much as you think. But I guess if you got carried away and added to much oil there may be more of a abrupt change.
Siraniko
And look at the picture. Shot number one was different a bit with the 300 and Tx too.
They actually sht a bit higher than the other shots taken.
And you notice on each red dot that there is a pellet touching. That’s the FWB 300’s shot. That gun is on the money.
GF1,
Yes. This is a subject I have written about. First shot accuracy. Maybe I need to do it again, because that’s the only shot that matters when you hunt.
B.B.
BB
I think that would be good.
Maybe link it to Geo’s reports you did. Not that it is the case with his gun. But it would at least make people be aware of it when they read about his gun and your testing and his also.
GF1,
Here is the article I wrote year ago.
/blog/2012/10/first-shot-yes-or-no-part-2/
B.B.
BB
Yep that was definitely a report that got the ball in motion.
And alot of good comments from the readers.
But I think like you said. It’s time to revisit it. Just because it was written in the past don’t mean that there isn’t more new under the sun that could be added today. 😉
BB
I have too many airguns my wife believes. But only one of them is good to go on the first shot. All the others require at least one and sometimes four warmup shots for reliable accuracy. I thought this was normal but now I’m not so sure. I read your test report above but would like to see more on the subject.
Decksniper
Decksniper,
I would, too. When I hunted, this subject was a prime concern of mine. I once let another hunter take a 12-point mule buck, because at 350 yards I wasn’t certain of where my .270 Weatherby would hit on the first shot. That experience was what prompted that test of the .250 Savage I linked to.
I think we need to see spring guns and pneumatics on this topic. Let me think about it a bit.
B.B.
B.B.
Please do. I’ve also noticed this same effect.
Larry tonite in Sheridan, WY