by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Umarex Forge.
This report covers:
- The test
- Trigger
- The test
- Accuracy — JSB Exact RS
- Accuracy— JSB Exact Heavy
- Accuracy— Crosman Premier Light
- What next?
- Final group
- Evaluation
- Summary
Today I complete the report on the Forge from Umarex. This is a breakbarrel rifle with a gas spring and … Well, you can read the past posts to catch up.
I’m running this test because the last time we looked at the Forge I felt the poor 4X32 scope that was provided with it might not have extracted all the accuracy the rifle can produce. I vowed to return and test it with a better scope and today the Force is mounted with the Aeon 8-32 AO scope with trajectory reticle, which is one of the best scopes I own. You can read about it here.
The test
This will be 10 shots with each pellet from a rested rifle at 25 yards. I started with the conventional artillery hold but soon discovered the Forge can be rested directly on the sandbag. I used the artillery hold in the last test, so that may make a difference today.
Trigger
I had forgotten how heavy the Forge trigger is. It challenges me to hold the rifle steady while squeezing it. An 8-pound trigger is a little overboard on the anti-liability side, I think.
Accuracy— JSB Exact RS
I sighted-in with JSB Exact RS pellets (5 shots) so they also shot the first group. At 25 yards ten pellets went into a group that measures 0.573-inches between centers. I was off to a good start! In the last test the same pellet put 10 in 0.973-inches. As I mentioned, though, it could all come down to the different hold.
The first group of 10 JSB Exact RS pellets went into 0.573-inches at 25 yards when the better scope was used.
Accuracy— JSB Exact Heavy
Next up were 10 JSB Exact Heavy pellets. I thought they might do well in the Forge because of its power. The first shot landed 4 inches below the aim point. I hadn’t anticipated that. It was off the target paper in spite of me aiming at a target on the top, but the second shot landed close enough to it that I continued shooting. I didn’t want to adjust the scope, in case the other pellet to be tested would then be too high. At the end of 10 shots only the first one was off the paper, but I photographed the group with the target still taped to the cardboard backer.
This group was not a good one. It measures 1.143 inches between centers and is elongated diagonally. This would not be a pellet for this rifle.
Ten JSB Exact Heavys went into 1.143-inches at 25 yards. They hit very low on the target.
Accuracy— Crosman Premier Light
The last pellet I tested was the Crosman Premier 7.9-grain domed pellet. I thought they might land higher on the target than the JSB Heavys because they are lighter. They did land higher, but they still struck the target 2 inches below the aim point. This time I did adjust the scope up, so the pellets would strike closer to the aim point.
Premier Lights gave me the worst group of all. Ten pellets went into 1.965-inches at 25 yards. This group was so big that I wondered whether something had happened to the scope.
Ten Crosman Premier Light pellets went into 1.965-inches at 25 yards.
What next?
At this point I was confused. The first group showed me that the Forge was more accurate when used with a better scope — I thought. But then the second and third groups were so large that I wondered whether something had happened. One way to check that is to shoot another group of the RS pellets.
Final group
I had to adjust the scope before shooting this group because I had moved the impact of the Premier Lights up by two inches. Now the scope had to go back down again.
Ten shots gave me what looks like it wants to be a good group, except for two outlying holes. They were shots one and six, and I can’t think of any any reason why they aren’t with the main group. So 8 pellets are in 0.58-inches at 25 yards and all 10 are in 1.453-inches.
Almost a good group, with 8 of the JSB Exact RS pellets going into 0.58 inches. The other two pellets opened the group to 1.453-inches at 25 yards.
Evaluation
I have learned things in today’s test. First, the better scope is a definite plus. I was able to see the aim point much better and as a result to aim better.
The heavy trigger is a negative. I can work with it, but each shot required a lot of concentration.
It’s too bad the scope that comes with the rifle isn’t that good. However, in retrospect, it looks like I shot nearly as well with it as with the scope that cost more than the entire Forge package. So, maybe Umarex is right to package a scope like that with this rifle.
The rifle definitely likes JSB Exact RS pellets. We see that in the previous test and in both groups shot today. I can’t explain the two fliers in the last group. That could have happened for any one of many reasons. Without further testing we can never know for certain.
Summary
I’m going to end this report here. There will always be more that can be tested, but I believe I have given the Forge a thorough test. I would recommend it to most buyers who are looking for a lot of power with decent accuracy in a $150 air rifle. It’s easy to cock and not very hold sensitive, but the trigger will take some getting used to. All things considered, it’s a good buy.
The first JSB Exact RS group was awesome for a hunting power $150 springer. Pity about the second.
Seantheaussie ,
I think this is a rifle mostly for hunting. Your finger will experience fatigue easily from the heavy pull causing deterioration of accuracy as seen in this test.
Siraniko
Siraniko so you are assigning the later groups to tired finger muscles while I am assigning the first group to a statistical fluke.
We can tell who is the glass half full person and who is the glass half empty in this conversation 😉
B.B.,
Ahhh!,…. the infamous unexplained fliers! Don’t ya’ just love ’em? 😉
For (me),… most of the time, it is something I did. If I am really on my game for the day,.. and I mean really on it,.. I will call a flier a flier. .58’ish groups shows that you were on your game at 25 yards.
Good Day to you and to all,…. Chris
Chris
Yep those flyer’s. And most of the time it’s me too. And those I call pulled shots. And what I mean by that is I usually pull the trigger to soon before I’m actually on aim point. That use to happen to me at times with my FWB 300. It’s got a very light trigger.
But when I get those true flyers when I know I did everything right is the ones that make me go wow where did that come from. It’s part of what is. They just happen. There’s a reason for sure. And it is nice when you eliminate them the best you can. But they sure can pop up at the wrong times it seems.
Chris,
Those unexplained fliers are definitely… unexplained!
On my shooting range, the pellet travels through a unshaded zone (20 Yards) into a partial shaded zone (30 yards) into a full shade zone (5 yards) to the dark wood backstop. In the evening, when the lighting is right, I can easily see the pellet through the scope as a streak of light against the backstop.
Most of the time the pellet flies straight path consistent with the crosshairs. Every now and then I see a pellet that takes off on its own direction. Some times they “flicker” (unstable??), some times they just veer off line.
I shoot mostly JSB pellets and don’t see this as often as I do with other brands. Haven’t been able to relate the fliers to a damaged/deformed pellet but then the pellets can be damaged (by the magazine or probe) while chambering them and not be noticed.
I want to do some tests where I deliberately cant the pellets off axis while chambering to see if that will cause fliers. Haven’t gotten around to that yet. Lots of projects on the go.
Have a great day eh!
Hank
Hank
I have the same effect that I can see. Only I can see out to 150 yards. It’s almost like slow motion I guess because I can see it for a longer distance. But I do like when the lighting is right like that. Pretty cool watching the pellet fly.
BB,
You were most generous with your summary evaluation of this sproinger. I guess I have become spoiled over the years.
I seriously doubt that very many people who would restrict their purchase price to this range are likely to be buying quality pellets. They would likely pick this up in a big box store because it looks awesome and is cheap and most likely pick up a pack of the cheapest, meanest looking supersonic pellets the store has. They had better be inside the barn when they try it out.
RR,
Those are my thoughts, as well. But I write what I do in hopes that those folks will pick up something from time to time.
B.B.
BB,
So very true. The unfortunate thing is they most likely do not read this or any other blog at that time and as so often happens they become frustrated with the performance of these air rifles and go no further with such. Ideally an experienced airgunner will introduce them to the sport and help them to understand what is needed to achieve their desires with such.
Hey BB at one time i guess Aeon scopes were sold for use on springers, but if my memory serves me they no longer warranty Aeon scopes for use on springers. I believe that has been the case for over a year which is a shame, but when you look at the weight of Aeon scopes vs. the normal springer approved scopes it seems they are a bit underweight.
For the people out there who think those of us on a budget when it comes to buying an air rifle would not order better pellets online try not to believe everything you think.
B.B.
Thanks! One more to cross off the list. What a waste of well everything.
-Y
Yogi,
My sediments, exactly 🙂
Brent
BB
So this rifle prefers a firearm hold directly on a bag. I had a similar thing happen yesterday. Some readers know I have an M8 that looks nice (no glow worm sights) but fails to put 10 in a group under 2 inches at 25 yards consistently. I have tried multiple pellets including premium types. Qiang Yaun Training pellets do best. I’ve tried barrel harmonic rings, very heavy telescopes and every kind of hold I could think of except one. I mounted the rifle with both the stock butt and forearm resting on sandbags, something I have not done with air rifles since I started reading your reports years ago. Well shazam! Group of 10 measured .89 inches at 25 yards. There is almost no reticle wiggle using this lock down hold even when pulling the 7 pound trigger. Now if I can just validate this score on another day.
The M8 trigger only looks like my Bronco trigger.
Decksniper
Decksniper
You mounted the rifle. What do you mean by that? Mounted to what?
But good that you found something that tightened up your group’s. And right. The next thing is will it repeat.
And I have came up with another hold I’m trying to that is similar to what your talking about and it’s been working. And have tryed it on all my air rifles and firearm rifles.
I have been resting the gun directly on my bag then putting my off hand into a ok sign with my pointing fingers and thumb. Then setting the trigger hand part if the stock on my off hand fingers. I’m very stable now. And the gun moves naturally when the shot goes off. I still use my trigger hand grip the same. A little firm and I still rest the butt if my gun loosely on my shoulder. But it has definitely tightened my groups and I have been able to reproduce the results.
Gunfun1
My M8 rests on a bag under forearm of stock and on another bag under the stock near the buttplate. I squeeze the front bag up to get on target or every shot. There is some shoulder pressure but not like I was shooting an M1.
I want to try your new hold but I’m not clear where your offhand is located.
Thanks,
Decksniper
Decksniper
Basically your off hand touches the bottom of the stock some where under your trigger hand. Maybe a little behind your trigger hand depending on what kind of stock you have.
I would take a picture but I’m getting ready for work.
Gunfun1
Thought you and maybe BB would want to know I have validated my M8 using the hold above I posted 6/6/2018 at 7:06 am. Got a 10 shot group at 25 yards with same Qiang Yuan Training pellets measuring .89 inches a few days later and another today scoring .72 inches. Believe this confirms this unusual hold for my rifle. I tried this hold with a couple of other air rifles with lawyered triggers but without success. It is one of a kind perhaps.
Today my rifle did not need warming up or seasoning. The first 10 grouped .72 inches.
Decksniper
Decksniper
Well that’s pretty darn good.
And yep more stabilization seems to be the best.
B.B.
Believe that the Forge has potential as a good hunting/plinker except for the trigger.
In the “Trigger” paragraph in Part 3 you mention that the trigger weight can’t be changed, I presume you are talking about its “adjustability”. Do you think that the trigger could be (easily) modified by lessening the pre-load on a spring or swapping the spring for a lighter one?
I really think that the anti-liability guys should realize that if they go overboard on the trigger weight to make it “safer” the first thing that will happen is that the owner is going to start messing with it (to “fix” it) – and that could be a real safety issue.
… just a thought.
Hank
Hank,
I have been surprised by the creativity of people who do things like fix these triggers, so I imagine it is possible to do something. Not for me though.
B.B.
BB
Could the tightness of your grip with your trigger hand over come the trigger pull pressure.
I’m sure your done with this gun. But maybe that’s the trick to a hard trigger if someone encounters this with a gun.
GF1,
I can do that with triggers that go up to 6 pounds pretty easily. A Trapdoor Springfield has a trigger that beaks at around 5 pounds, but it feels so crisp that I have no complaint.
I’m saying this trigger goes beyond my ability to compensate.
B.B.
BB
So more or less it’s really about how it’s hard to feel when the trigger is going to break. The extra pressure is a problem but the two combined makes it hard to get the shot off when you want it to happen.
Kind of like me if I pull a shot by pulling the trigger to soon. Only with this gun it’s hard to judge when the shot will go off.
Or am I not getting what you mean.
GF1,
No, I pretty much know when it’s going to break. But when I pull the trigger that hard I tend to move the gun more than I should. It took a lot of concentration to keep that top a minimum.
B.B.
BB
Ok well I guess that means lessoning the pull pressure is what it’s about then.
If you know when it’s going to break that’s good.
So this trigger would probably be ok other than lightening the pull pressure.
So if a person worked around that it’s possible that it could be a good gun.
It just gets me how close to good they make some triggers. Then they mess it up by not doing that one more thing. I wonder how that will ever change when some manufacturers make things.
Just one more littl thing they could of done.
I bet Weirauch and FWB just sit back and smirk when they see this stuff happen. Soon or later we will see who the top dog is. The good company’s will make it. The others won’t.
Appreciation, recognizing the value of something. If you have never experienced a bad trigger how would you value a good one? If I hadn’t started with a Crosman break barrel or a 392 Benjamin would I appreciate the TX200 I bought from Chris USA as much, I doubt it. So for me there is value in struggling with mediocre bang levers as it has enhanced the aha moment of experiencing a truly great trigger.
Here a group of 5 JSB 18.3 at 10 yds from the TX.
Coduece,
Nice going. Wait until you do that at 50 yards.
Most of my air rifle triggers are single stage. All but one of them is a nice, crisp break. The one that is not is because I have not had the opportunity to work on it yet.
My air rifles with two stage triggers are awesome. I think and they shoot. One of them I would not hand to a newbie, but I would not likely hand that one to a newbie anyway.
There is no excuse for a bad trigger. It is an engineering problem that the manufacturer did not want to spend money on to correct. They have known how to build a good quality trigger for quite some time now. One of mine is over one hundred sixteen years old and it is one of the simplest.
I’ll step down off my soap box now.
RR
My group, would you measure it as .394 or .174? .394 – .22 for ctc I see it measured both ways.
Carl
Coduece
Most people measure groups center to center of the hole.
So yes .174″ is what I would call it.
How many shots did you shoot in that group. That makes a difference too.
GF1
I revisited the FWB 300 vs TX 200 blog, and B.B. shot 5 shot groups so that’s what I tried to replicate.
Carl
Coduece
I don’t know what BB shot with his guns. But my FWB 300 is a shooter. Is not a looker. But the shooter side makes up for it. It is modded with some of my tricks. But my 300 would make the Tx work for some 50 yard groups. Even my .177 Tx. It was a little better than my .22 Tx though. Come to think about it I tuned the .177 Tx and not the .22 Tx so that may of been why too.
But I can say this all in all both of my Tx’s and the 300 was good shooters.
And yep with the 5 shot group’s. If you was to shoot the Tx 5 shots. Then I would expect to do the 309 the same if your comparing groups.
Fat fingered the 309.
Suppose to be 300.
Coduece
Oh and yes that’s good for a .22 caliber pellet at that distance. I would call that more or less a one hole group.
GF1
I was bidding on a left hand stocked FWB 300 a few months ago I stopped bidding at 675$ it went for 725$ or so.
Carl
Coduece
Yep nice 300’s will go for that much. And I imagine a left hand stock probably goes for more.
If you keep your eyes open I bet you can find one cheaper though.
Coduece
If you find a right hand for a good price I might be able to hook you up with a pretty nice left hand stock if they still have it.
I’ll find if the stock is still available if you want. You could get the stock now. Then find you a right hand 300 later and switch out the stocks.
If so my 300 could be for sale for a good price. I can send you a picture if you want. The right hand stock that is on it needs refinished and the bluing is a little faded. But it will come with the factory front globe sight twith a insert in it. And a rear peep sight. Oh and like I mentioned before. It’s a shooter. Very accurate and does shoot hotter then the a factory 300.
Just throwing it out there at ya.
GFI
Definetly yes on the left hand stock, and if that’s a go yes on your FWB. I would have to wait until July on the gun, that’s when I’m returning to work.
Carl
cisleyag1@gmail.com
Coduece
I checked and they don’t have the left hand store anymore. Sorry.
But I’ll email you a picture of my FWB 300 in a minute.
I don’t know what kind of coin that is I found it under a machine at work, it’s smaller than a dime. Maybe someone on here knows?
Carl
Coduece
It’s a Ukraine coin. Might be a penny.
Bob
That was fast, who needs google when you can just come here.
Carl
Here’s a connection with the past. I jumped on my B30 when PA sold it for $150. The one time I took it out to the range, I got comparable groups with this. But getting it there required a major tune-up that brought the price up to $300.
I got my cast off last week and am finally able to type again with both hands which speeds things up considerably. But shooting is still off in the future. The broken arm is limited to one pound of weight. I can’t come close to working a slide on a semiauto handgun, and shooting offhand with the B30 is not to be thought of.
Matt61
Matt Six One,
Glad the cast is off and now you can work on regaining strength and function!
Remember that your other WEAK side hand need practice too! There are ways to rack a slide with a low/no functioning hand. NRAFamily.com just had a piece on folks with low hand strength or arhtritis and gun/slide manipulation.
Hope your arm/handcomes up to speed quickly! Just think you won’t be in that cast during the hottest months of the year! Oh! Unless you live in the southern hemisphere?
shootski
Matt61,
Good to hear from and good to hear the cast is off. Give it some,… well,.. ok,…. more time. 😉
Chris
Matt61
Glad you got your cast off.
I bet your ready for some shooting. Hope you get back up to speed soon.
Magazine or Clip ?
Caught a little blurb some where on the blog recently but can’t recall it.
I always thought a clip was something that holds ammunition and is used to FEED a MAGAZINE, be it fixed in the rifle, or removable. An example would be a “Stripper Clip” or a clip that drops INTO a magazine and is eventually ejected. It only HOLDS ammo. The mag FEEDS ammo.
Now I believe both terms are obviously used today to refer to a magazine but a clip is not a mag.
Magazines for guns, not buildings or rooms that store ammo, are used to FEED the RIFLE or firearm. They can be in any shape, tube, round, stick, drum. and are somewhat enclosed within the gun, when used.
So what about those plastic ‘clips’ that slide sideways on some dual ammo pumpers? Call it what you want if it ‘feeds’ the rifle its a ‘mag’…. even if the ammo ‘clips’ into place within it, or it ‘clips’ into the gun. It’s a stick mag.
Now just because back in 1909-1910 the US Army Ordinance Dept. documented the 1911 pistol mag as a “Clip” it does not make it so. It was just something that ‘clipped’ into the pistol which is what they were working for …. A ‘ Self contained Magazine’ and was probably entered incorrectly by some administration person.
Now there may be something that looks exactly like a stripper clip that is actually used to feed a firearm some where out there but it’s a mag.
Bob M
Bob,
I believe that was me. I agree with you,.. a magazine feeds the ammo. A semi -auto would feed it and it is ready to shoot. I also call the M-rod magazine a magazine, as it is spring loaded,… but,.. the bolt must be cycled for the next pellet to advance. My 92FS has a clip. The trigger advances the clip. Basically it is a revolver, but looks like semi auto. I would call the plastic ‘clips’ side feeds,… a clip.
Chris
I see where your coming from but I think your just adding another dimension to the controversy.
Does a magazine, or should a magazine provide mechanical assistance to actually put the ammo in front of the breach to be called a magazine. Or in your words, does it actually advance ammo or not by itself. All ammo is eventually pushed into the breach by a bolt. Automatically or manually.
A good point to ponder. If it’s job is to contain ammo, and feed ammo to be fired, where does the actual ‘feeding’ come into play?
I would simply classify a magazine as ‘Spring Assisted’ or a ‘Passive’. Either way the ammo is contained in the gun and there is a new bullet available to fire with the next mechanical cycling however that is accomplished.
I don’t see that what device accomplishes the action of putting a bullet in position has anything to do with it.
An internal spring, a mechanical arm device or gravity as in a Gatling gun drum mag.
Same thing with a rotated or sliding mag. Spring assisted or passive and mechanically actuated, it puts a pellet, bb or bullet in front of the breach for the next firing cycle.
I see the temptation to call something so simple and without moving parts a ‘clip’. Let me put it this way,
If it stores ammo for repeated firing without reloading and positions ammo for loading into the breach … one way or another … it’s a Magazine….. Even if you have to push it by hand the simplest passive magazine required action. OK, gravity may be easier.
Enjoying the blog, Bob M
Bob,
I just did a rather extensive search of the blog and found nothing/article that specifically addresses the difference in definition’s between clips and mags. I stand by my statement. It has come about on discussions enough, and BB has weighed in enough and mentioned it in blogs, that I am pretty sure of my position. Repeater, revolver, auto and semi-auto are another thing. If not mistaken, that refers to the specific action. Perhaps BB will weigh in to clarify?, but I still think that a magazine uses a (spring) to feed the projectile into alignment with the breech. How it enters the breech is another issue,.. be it by bolt/lever or auto breeched. I also consider (in alignment) with the breech/lead and actually being fed into the breech/lead to be 2 different things.
However it is,… I am enjoying the blog as well, Chris
Chris,
Clips and mags? Well, since even the ones who invented the term have misused them over time, it’s a difficult path.
I might blog it if there is interest, but it’s about as exciting as watching paint dry.
B.B.
BB
As much as we have blogged about it today, I’d say, Forgedaboudit ! It is what it is, just some conversation about it.
Bob,
Siraniko’s comment and two links provide quite a bit on the topic. Worth a look. Like you said,… in the end,…. it is what it is.
B.B.,
Gotch ya. It is what it is and we all have our preferences of what works and what does not. Then there is single shots and shot trays that avoid being caught up in the debate in the first place.
Chris
Chris
Read my link I posted below about mags and clips.
Then read my comment.
Chris USA,
In the entry way back in /blog/2010/07/terminology-is-important/ Jane Hansen and Matt61 were discussing this in the comments (/blog/2010/07/terminology-is-important/#comment-6232) followed by Vince and B.B. jumping in with their comments.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Thank you. I do remember reading that now
Chris
Chris
I reread your entry to make sure I clearly understood you. And I think you are mixing the operation of certain guns as far as cycling actions go with the a mag function. A bolt is required to move with both a semi-auto and simple bolt action to cycle a pellet into the breach. The semi-auto simply does it as part of modern technology making it faster.
Of course some airguns simply blow it through the mag and out the barrel, 1077, which by the way is called a 12 round magazine on the box and a clip in the instructions. The pros can’t get it straight either or like most just don’t care. People know what they are talking about anyway. But facts rule here.
I think your being influenced by an airguns pellet cycling action with the function of a pellet storing device. I would consider it a passive ‘Rotary’ magazine operated through trigger action. It would have to be a ‘stacked’ or rotary spring loaded magazine for a bolt to make it cycle.
We may never see eye to eye as Shooski mentioned but at least we have food for thought !
Bob
But maybe the pros did get it right at Crosman.
Read my link below.
Chris
And me talking with you the other day about mags and clips.
Bob
Read my link below then my comment afterwards.
I just want to climb on the soap box that RR vacated after a pevious post. Just to be clear, I am not singling out this Umarex offering – specially considering that the groups that BB made with it are better than what I generally get with better rifles. What follows, instead, are general thoughts.
In my opinion, something is wrong when we see fairly good power plants, stocks and barrels being unable to produce even decent results because of poor sights and triggers. There are plenty of examples: center posts, glowing or not, that are wider than the rear apertures, heavy trigger pulls with uncontrolled over-travel, rough bearing surfaces, barrel alignment, etc. Probably each one of you can add something else to the list.
There is no doubt that the engineering part has been solved long ago and that quality workmanship is available everywhere, in the USA, Germany, the UK and even in Turkey and China. However, the product quality chain breaks down somewhere most of the time. I don’t know the exact answer but it is generally understood that manufacturing and liability savings are the excuse for the (lack of) quality of these products. I don’t think that it is all.
Obviously, to offer a low cost airgun, manufacturers and importers have to cut expenses somewhere, right? The problem is that they make the cuts where it is not seen although it hurts performance, like in a trigger, while they do not skimp in box design and speed claims. Perhaps the obvious conclusion is that most customers are satisfied with minute-of-5 gallon bucket precision. Perhaps it is people like us who value a good design, small groups or clean kills who are out of touch.
As for myself, I will continue admiring great guns, old and new, while searching for perfection, albeit within a limited budget. And learning all the time.
Henry
Bob,
Thank you!
Unfortunately I think this is a Kleenex or LEGO kind of issue! We can fight the good fight forever but it will never go back to being called a tissue (my preference is a handkerchief!) or LEGO Bricks…but the Philistines will call them: Kleenex, Legos, hankies, clips or mags! Revolver or wheelgun, handgun, sometimes incorrectly called a pistol, loaded with a Moon Clip??? Don’t get me started about semi or auto; rifle or handgun not to speak of scattergun, and of course ASAULT thingies.
shootski
Shootski
I agree with you, gotta laugh, In the PI they evidently still call tooth paste ‘Colgate’ Must have been the only tooth paste that entered the country during WWII.
Moon Clip, forgot about them. Always thought they were for using rimless ammo in a revolver but I guess they have them for rimmed ammo too.
Bob M,
I’m from the Philippines and I can attest to that. Take the phrase, “Now that would be a Kodak moment”. Some people still prefer to use it when taking pictures with a cellphone. Use of a brand name as a generic reference means a successful marketing campaign.
Siraniko
Siraniko
I have visited the Philippines many times, mainly in the Olongapo area with a bus ride to Angel City for a night. An extremely popular liberty port for Navy service members, although most of my time there resulted from DC-9 aircraft deployments there as an aircrew member.
I have lived some of the best days of my life there with shipmates, staying with locals or at the Marmont Hotel.
Some of the most friendly and accommodating people in the world and I have been around some. Makes me wonder sometimes, what’s so great about the rat race here in the US.
Life is viewed differently throughout the world. Be nice to go back and see the rest of the country one day.
Bob M,
The Department of Tourism does say it’s More Fun in the Philippines.
Siraniko
Siraniko
Most appropriate. If I remember right it was about a 17 hour flight back home from there with stops. Probably why it’s often overlooked.
I must add that most of the rounds numerically I have fired have been Belt Fed from ammo containers in the nose or wing roots at high RPS (Rounds Per Second!)
And, to think I never thought once about the dollars per round that were being hosed into the sky, water and dirt. At least not until I had to buy .50 cal. rounds for my son’s rifle for our trip to the range; told me I needed to bring what I wanted to shoot. I never reallized how effectively my personal finance and economics teaching had reached him!!!
Only made it to the PI a handful of times since that half of the world was mostly covered by our sister squadron; VQ-1. But I agree that it is a place and people that find happiness in one another more than most places I have been fortunate to experience. The Maldives is another!
shootski
Henry-TX
Come on Henry, I wouldn’t use the term “Satisfied”, I would say “Accepting of”, for a low cost airgun.
We all know you usually get what you pay for, even if they try to disguise a real wall hanger and most new air gunners don’t know enough about this ever growing and complicated sport to make an informed purchase.
I agree with you it’s all about the bottom line, money, and we all would like to have our cake and eat it too. A perfect low cost airgun. Without the people here you are gambling on what you pay for.
“Out of touch”? How about, the Select …. the Few … the Trustworthy … Knowledgeable Airgun Enthusiasts and Manufacturers. More, Much, Gooder !
Gumi Bears!
Mad me remember being in a hotel room, decades ago with paper thin walls hearing plink! plinck! plink! plink! plink! So I knocked on the door and KC my copilot said, “Come on in.”. He had picked up a cheap L O W powered BB gun and had lined up a long row of gumi bears on the dresser and was executing them one by on by one!
shootski
Shootski
Ever get to, accidently of course, dive bomb Wake Island? You know trying to avoid a flyby of course 🙂
Did you ever see the u-tube video on a 50 cal. ricochet. Make you think twice about shooting one.
Guys
That NRA link above has been removed try this,
https://americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/3/6/clips-vs-magazines/
I guess I’m one of the “Purists” they mention.
Figured I would post this. Maybe it will help. Maybe it will confuse more.
https://writingexplained.org/clip-vs-magazine-difference
So the way I see it a Marauder uses a magazine.
A 1077 uses a clip that is inserted into a magazine then loaded into the gun.
I think that’s pretty clear and goes along with the link I posted.
GF1
What can I say? You made a good case there !
Bob M
Bob
I myself had questions about the magazine/clip thing so figured I would do some looking and found that little write up.
Bob,
Would I do THAT! I was the Safety NATOPS guy as one of my ground jobs…
shootski
Shootski
I was just kidding. I know that a decorated Viet Nam F4 jockey, now flying a DC9, would never do that and intentionally drive his aircrew to their knees on pull up. I figure he just had problems acquiring the glide slope and had to make a rapid dissent to acquire it and missed his first approach.
Seems to happen every once in a while in the VR community when they regularly ‘drop’ into Wake.
They really need to take better care of their ground equipment, too much salty air perhaps ? Yes… That must be it.
Bob,
Figured you might find this interesting informative:
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/03/10/understanding-safety-steel-targets/
Oh! The Skipper ordered the hanger doors closed when my crew and I returned from a three month deployment to Diego Garcia and environs. We were in a big bird (P-3 variant) with sushi, sashimi, Alaskan Kng crab, lobster, gulf coast shrimp and Big Macs on board after flying around the world to get home to Rota.
shootski
Shootski
Yes I did. First comment mentioned that video. When I was younger shooting in places that resembled a junk yard we had ricochets flying around and whizzing overhead all the time. Guess we were just lucky.
The term we used for a Logistics Flight Det. was a Westpac shopping tour and a full size cargo door was very, very handy if you know what I mean. But that was a long time ago and I’m ‘sure’ things have become shall we say, less fun over the years.
Bob,
That’s called a Penetration Approach with a self initiate Missed pproach at minimums
Just a skilled Aviator honing his/her skills! Perfectly legal!
shootski
Hello again Tom.
A little quid pro quo for all the knowledge you’ve bestowed. Rock Island Auction Company has a sale coming up starting on Feb. 14 that contains a veritable cornucopia of air guns. If you go to their site, click “gun auctions” and search catalog it is easily browse able , even has an “Air Guns” category! In a 10,000 gun group, that’s a pretty big deal.
best wishes,
W
W,
Oh, no! More airguns! Whatever shall I do? 😉
Thanks,
B.B.
Among the vastness they have an Engraved Julius Will/Venuswaffenwerk Crank Style Air Pistol with Three Extra Cranks, at least 10 Swedish Excellent, Quackenbush, and Hammerli. Around 100 “collector” guns in total, with a few semi-modern things thrown in.
Its the strangest collection of pressurized devices I’ve seen this side of your blog.
Provided links aren’t edited here, this will land you smack dab in the middle.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/catalog/1032/1/?savedsearch=Air-Guns&perpage=200