by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Air Venturi TR5 repeating pellet rifle.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
This report covers:
- “I’ll eat my hat!”
- We talked
- Hobbys
- The solution?
- The test
- Eye-opener!
- Magazine 2
- Next time?
- Summary
- Summary
“I’ll eat my hat!”
I had a conversation with Val Gamerman last Friday. I never told you, but before I started my tests he told me the Air Venturi TR5 Multi-Shot Target Air Rifle would put 5 pellets in 3/4-inch at 10 meters or he would eat his hat. The last time Val said something like that to me was in 2012, and he said it about an IZH 60, oddly enough. He trusted me to shoot and that time it was 10 shots in a quarter-inch at 10 meters. I almost did it but not quite, so he kept his word and ate his “hat.”
This was the “hat.”
Pyramyd AIR president, Val Gamerman, eating his “hat.”
We talked
So Val called me after reading all 5 parts of the blog on the TR5 and we talked for some time. He told me the spec for the rifle was 5 shots in 20mm at 10 meters. Twenty millimeters in 0.787-inches, so he felt safe enough. Air Venturi had tested 10 rifles and all but two met or exceeded the spec. The best one put five into 0.3 inches at 10 meters. Of the two that didn’t make it, one was just over and the other was greater than one inch.
Hobbys
As he talked, I noticed Val was repeatedly mentioning that they tested the rifles with RWS Hobby pellets. That’s a pellet I never tried in the test rifle. They did test with other pellets, as well, but the Hobby caught my eye.
Then Val asked me why the TR5s in general are so fussy about the pellets they like and why my TR5, in particular, is so inaccurate? I told him there are two things that contribute to that. A barrel that’s larger on the inside will tend to like some pellets over others and any pellet repeater is suspect because the magazine might not align with the breech. Heck — you should see all the things the RAW rifles do to overcome this very problem! They spend a lot of time and effort to ensure their rifles don’t have a magazine alignment problem!
The solution?
He told me that Boris (one of his design engineers) had suggested making a magazine with just a single chamber that could be used in the single-shot mode. And I told him I would like to retest the TR5 with Hobbys, but which of the five pellet chambers could I trust? If only there was a way to test each of them separately.
Then it hit me — there is a way to test the pellet chambers separately. Shoot one shot at each bull for a total of 5 separate bulls on a target page, then reload and do it again, and again, until each bull has 5 shots fired from each chamber! This is a test I have never tried before, but since I wanted to test the Hobbys anyway, why not do it this way?
The test
That is our test today. One pellet was fired at each of five separate bulls at 10 meters — five times. I shot off a sandbag rest with the rifle rested directly on the bag. And I used a conventional hold. RWS Hobbys are the only pellets that were shot.
Eye-opener!
Since I haven’t tested Hobbys in this rifle yet, I first fired a magazine of five at a bull before starting the test. When the first four pellets went into the same 0.488-inch hole, I was impressed. But shot number five landed low and to the right, opening the group to 0.994-inches. Remember that, because I’ll come back to it in a bit.
This group opened my eyes a bit. Five Hobbys went into 0.884-inches at 10 meters, with 4 in 0.488-inches. Maybe this is the pellet for the rifle?
I’m going to show you all 5 targets and then talk about the groups afterward.
The first chamber put 5 in 0.818-inches at 10 meters.
The second chamber put 5 in 1.08-inches at 10 meters.
The third chamber put 5 in 1.02-inches at 10 meters.
The fourth chamber put 5 in 1.518-inches at 10 meters.
The fifth chamber put 5 in at least 2.577-inches at 10 meters. I say at least because one of the two widest holes isn’t all the way on the target.
The biggest thing I took from this test is that the fifth chamber is the one that’s the most screwed up. It is also the chamber that threw the last shot in the first 5-shot group. Remember — I said I would come back to that?
This set of targets was made with the first magazine, which is the one I put in the box at the end of this test. I’m reminding myself of that for any future testing I decide to do.
Magazine 2
I ran an identical set of tests for the second magazine. The first 5-shot group used the entire magazine and measures 1.629-inches between centers. That’s quite different from the first magazine. Remember that because I want to address it at the end of the test.
The results from the second magazine are very different from those of magazine one. Five pellets are in 1.629-inches at 10 meters. This will be an interesting set of targets!
The first chamber put 5 in 1.927-inches at 10 meters.
The second chamber put 5 in 2.483-inches at 10 meters.
The third chamber put 5 in 0.71-inches at 10 meters. It’s the best group of the test!
The fourth chamber put 5 in 1.276-inches at 10 meters.
The fifth chamber put 5 in at least 1.231-inches at 10 meters.
The second magazine that is still in the rifle at the end of the test is probably not one to use. Four of the five chambers are goofed up. However, if there is a way to only shoot chamber number three, it did give the best group of this test. I will ponder that for the next time.
Next time?
I am going to shoot the TR5 at least once more because today’s test has taught me something. I really wish this rifle was a single shot, but since it isn’t, is there a good way to shoot it as though it is? There are several things to consider.
1. The first magazine gave 4 good shots and then a flyer. Can I do anything with that? Perhaps only load 4 at a time?
2. The first chamber in the first magazine gave the best group for that magazine. Can anything be done with that?
3. Chamber 3 in the second magazine is another one to consider, if I can figure out how to use just it.
Summary
I didn’t expect to do this test, and now I’m planning even more. This isn’t a case of finding an accurate TR5. They exist. But I want to see how well this one can shoot. I think that it shoots better than I have shown so far.
Oh, and Val, don’t forget to order your next hat!
Like I’ve said before the magazine doesn’t line up with the breach. So on some shots it bends skirts when the pellet is loaded. Said it in part 3, 4, 5 and now 6.
who cares if the mag don’t line up with the breech? pellets being deformed. or if the barrel is bent rifling gouged and barrel along its length goes from .177 to .20? as long as the trigger can be adjusted to 1/2 ounce that is all that matters lol. that is the impression I get when I read accuracy posts for air or PB rifles
You almost tested the hobby pellets, you used them for the velocity test, then switched horses for the accuracy test.
Boris has the right idea, If the magazine stick only had 1 hole, and only 1 index notch for the pawl to lock in, it could be a single shot.
Yes it involves removing the stick, and loading it, and the re inserting it but it would work I think.
I don’t own one, so I am asking, is the magazine under spring tension when you insert it into the gun?
If so, a retaining pin could be incorporated to let the magazine pop out when cocking to allow access to the pellet chamber, then pushed back into the rifle to lock in place again and be shot?
Or is it mechanically advanced like the daisy 853C?
“Is the magazine under spring tension when you insert it into the gun?”
Yes, there is a small spring in the gun. The cocking does advance the clip mechanically, first the left-most hole, then the next, and the next, and the next, and then the right-most hole is the last one.
Michael
I have a better idea…do not buy the rifle lol. almost every cheap Walmart air rifle I bought would shoot tiny groups at 10 yds after finding right hold and pellet. it was after 10 yds the rifle really opened groups. no need to go insane trying to get this rifle to shoot
Mildot52,
How many cheap airguns at Walmart a) have an excellent trigger, b) weigh five pounds (or less, of course) and c) cock with about 15 pounds of effort?
Michael
I could care less about all that as long as they shoot tiny groups and they do with horrible triggers that you get used to in 30 shots. and what good is all you noted if it is an air shotgun?
Mildot,
I am not a good enough shot to do very well with a stiff trigger, especially if it is unpredictable. I haven’t seen an air shotgun yet at Walmart, but if I ever do, I hope it is on clearance so I could try one out. :^)
Michael
lol I meant the TR5 is an air shotgun . it groups like buckshot would at 25 yds. david Tubbs one of the best rifle shots ever said you can get used to any trigger
I bow to Mr. Tubbs superior expertise, but everything else being equal, I am a far less bad shot with a nice trigger. I know that for a fact after shooting many air guns before and then after adjusting the trigger.
And struggling with a mediocre trigger takes much of the fun out of it for me, and I shoot air guns for fun only.
Michael
it is all in your head. after 25 shots really concentrating on the trigger you will be used to it and shoot well. like Tubbs said anyone can get used to any trigger. In the early 90’s nobody would buy savage rifles. me and 2 guys that worked for me bought HB 308 and 223. they had triggers where you needed a come along to set the round off. got used to them all 3 of us and shot tiny groups. when they came out with an after market trigger we bought them did not make any difference a waste of money.
Mildot52,
I have provided several logical explanations for why I like my TR5. I get the feeling that if I were to provide several more reasons, you would continue to try to convince me not to like my TR5 at every instance. I now feel silly for going around and around in this endless, fruitless, rhetorical circle. Nothing I write or you write will change this: I will continue to enjoy shooting my TR5, and you will continue thinking I should not. I urge you not to buy a TR5. Your dislike of it is “all in your head,” just as my enjoyment as I shoot mine is also all in my head.
This hamster is stepping out of the wheel.
Michael
B.B.
Don’t you love when they make everything overbore? That is the key to an inaccurate rifle!
In my shooting experience, magazines are ALWAYS the weak link. Why don’t some metal shop guys make aftermarket quality magazines out of metal? Think Porsche quality not Yugo quality.
Another reason to like single shooters…
When you posted the link to the RAW HM 100, I thought it was a link to the explanation as to how they DO align the magazine with the breach. Maybe a topic for another blog?
-Y
Yogi,
Definitely. I do want to test a RAW for you.
B.B.
Yogi,
“Why don’t some metal shop guys make aftermarket quality magazines out of metal?”
:^)
Michael
B.B.,
Aaaaah! This installment provides what just might be the biggest Ah-HAH moment I recall with this blog. The TR5 is a Ferrari on cheap tires! I wonder what sort of surgery Gunfun1 will come up with to turn his TR5 into a single-shot.
I haven’t checked out my aftermarket clips yet, but I sure will now.
Michael
Michael,
It is more like a Spatznik on Wang Po tires.
RR,
Is a Spatznik a good thing? I don’t have the background to understand your simile.
Michael
Michael,
Sorry. Something must have been lost in translation.
A Russian design made in China.
The IZH 60 and 61 air rifles were never Ferraris.
RidgeRunner,
Fair enough. Here’s one: A sandwich with Boar’s Head top round corned beef on Wonder Bread.
Michael
Toasted with sauerkraut and a little thousand island dressing.
RR,
Put it on real, dark rye bread, add melted Swiss cheese, and I’m all in!
Michael
Michael,
Oh yeah! There is a place down town that Kathy and I go for just that!
B.B.,
Very innovative testing! Your solution would also apply to anyone seeking to verify a rotary magazine. Definitely a test method to keep in your back pocket. In the end, it is obvious that there is some quality irregularities occurring.
Good Day to you and to all,……… Chris
Chris,
Yes, it does apply to rotary magazines, as well.
B.B.
The question in my mind is,.. can the magazine be manually advanced? Like,.. can I use only chamber 3, on the first shot? Can I use chambers 1, 3 and 5 and skip over 2 and 4,.. (without) cocking/firing the rifle?
Chris,
I don’t know yet. Gonna find out.
B.B.
Chris
You can use only chamber 3 if you want. You have to know how deep you seat the clip though for that particular chamber.
And no you can’t skip a place without cocking the gun. The probe pulls back as you start to cock it.
Gunfun1,
It seems to me that after repeating B.B.’s multi-bull test to determine the best cylinder in a clip, one could grind off the teeth to the left of that best cylinder, always load just that one cylinder, and shoot the TR5 as a single-shot. Can you think of a reason why this would not work?
Michael
Michael
Sounds like it would work to me.
Chris,
As Gunfun1 answered, the rifle must be cocked for the next shot to advance the clip. But it seems to me by selectively grinding away teeth on the clip, one could make the clip index only to predetermined cylinders.
So yes, I believe one could modify a clip to shoot just #1, #3 and #5.
Michael
BB,
It is our own fault that they did not make a single shot version. We are always whining about more power and more shots. Oh, and we want to pay almost nothing for it. What? You want it to shoot like a FWB300? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
In all seriousness though, I do like this test you have devised. I will most definitely intend to follow along with this and keep this in mind.
RR,
Of course we want all our rifles to shoot like a FWB 300 …but as light weight, 1000 fps .22 caliber repeater – make one of those and you could ask any price LOL!
Hank
Hank,
NONONONO! It has to sell for less than $100!
RR,
Yeah – if you want to dream you might as well do it in full color and Dolby surround sound eh?
Right.
Sure would be nice if manufacturers would lead us in the direction of which type pellet works best in their airgun. No need to mention names just the type.
But then again the barrels of each may differ enough to prefer a totally different pellet and shooters will have different needs for shooting it with a pellet that fills that need. And how many different pellets and manufacturers are out there. You will need to find the needle in a haystack to get the best accuracy with the best pellet design for your purpose. With all the different weights and pellet designs it seems like a daunting task.
It’s discouraging that we need to troubleshoot to find the cause of poor accuracy but encouraging to know all may not be lost in the end.
You are providing us with a wealth of information with this one as we gain a lot of respect for the makers of out of the box accurate airguns.
So is there a lot of play in the mag ?
BB
I thought at first I had one of my clips being more accurate than the other. But the more I shot I found both were doing the same group wise.
On my gun it changed when I changed barrels.
And I’m guessing you forgot that I have mentioned this in the past. I take and make 9 dots on my white piece of target paper and shoot one shot at each dot. I usually do this on my pesting guns so I know how well they are placing to my kill zone.
What I’m getting at is even my single shot air guns will poi at different spots in it’s normal group size. And that will change the more shots I take.
If anything I say it’s to early to tell. I say more shooting is needed done to verify if it is the different holes in the clip on your TR5.
GF1,
Could you check your TR5 barrel for me?
I wonder if the breech is very square/sharp and is snagging the pellet. My P17 pistol had that problem making it difficult to load, chamfering the sharp edge fixed that.
Do you think it might help to cut and polish a chamfer to provide a bit of a lead-in for the pellet.
Hank
Hank
I mentioned it in one of the reports BB did that I checked the chamfer lead in at the breech end and the crown and they actually look nice. And my rifling is clean and pretty deep. I keep thinking some bigger head diameter pellets with a thin skirt will help the TR5 with it’s original barrel. More pellet testing is still in store I believe.
One of the things I mentioned also is when I push the cocking arm back to the closed position that I do it slow and easy. That’s what pushes the probe forward and loads the pellet.
Hopefully BB will do more shooting at the separate targets and see if he keeps getting repeat results from each hole in the clip.
GF1,
OK, thanks for that!
I visit every morning (me and my coffee) but rarely get a chance to review comments posted later in the day.
Hank
Hank
Yep. And there was times we went into multiple days of commenting on the TR5 reports
And I was thinking that people using thier RSS feed was seeing the comments we was making.
I wonder if the green one is more accurate….LOL. With all the accuracy problems I still want one. I wish I was strong enough to wait for gen 2!
Welcome to the blog.
Yes, the green rifles are a bit more accurate, but only with lead-free pellets. 😉
B.B.
Thank you. I’m a big fan of your work. I’ll get the green one and see what happens!
Ict815,
I hope you know I am kidding about the accuracy part!
B.B.
B.B.,
I think lct815 was kidding about Gen 2!
Michael
Yes, just kidding. I was lucky to get a green TR5 for Father’s Day. Finally took it out. Had a stock 4x scope on it from another rifle. At 10 yards off a bag I shot an odd 1.25″ by 1.5″ blob with what appeared to be vertical strings. I’d like to blame the scope…but I’m sure it is me (bad artillery hold, trigger, etc). I need much practice. I’ll try a better setup too. The TR5 is an interesting air gun. It did make the spinners flip at 10 yards with little effort. Fun!
I really want to understand the need for such an extensive test on a project that seems well thought but not so well executed. Please excuse my bold comment Pyramyd.
BB I think that you stopped tests in the past, even before ending them, just because the item failed in some way. PT85 GAMO came to mind.
Maybe another time when the, possible, problem is addressed. You have so many interesting things going on at this moment.
Bill
Bill,
That question deserves an answer right away.
The TR5 is a copy of, and a replacement for the IZH61 Russian air rifle that we can no longer import into the U.S. That rifle was at one time very popular with a lot of shooters. So the TR5 is an answer to a gun people have been asking for.
If you think I’m over-testing an inexpensive spring gun — you’re right! But I’m doing it because the TR5 has the chance to become an icon that the IZH61 used to be.
I’m a single-shot guy, personally, and repeating airguns leave me cold. But this one is different than the rest because of what it is trying to become.
I hope that answers your question.
B.B.
Bill, part of it is emotional attachment. Tom likes the design, and I think he wants it to work. I also want it to work, and I have seen internal QC results now (more are being tested). Truth is – I see some solid accuracy from quite a few samples in the internal QC sheets, but with different pellets, so I am sitting this one out until right people figure it all out so I can eat my hat only once (that one in 2012 tasted pretty bad, so that experience was not good). Not without irony, that I take bets with Tom on these designs every time…
The TR5 sure seems to be getting a lot of (emotional) attention – people like the design but are disappointed with the performance.
Might be the word “target” in the name is raising expectations beyond what is realistic for a $130 plinker.
Hank
The TR5 will kill cans at 15 yards as it comes from the box.
And you nailed it. Using the word “target” in the name is what is misleading.
That is still what I can’t figure out. How and the heck did they allow that to happen.
But as I have mentioned the TR5 is not a bad gun out to f the box if your can killing with it. And I’ll say again it is moddable and spring gun tunable if a person wants too.
And I do intend on buying another one. And yes a green one this next time. We’ll see if the green ones are more accurate. 😉
Hank,
Maybe instead of calling it the TR5 Multi-Shot Target Air Rifle, they should have called it the TR5 Multi-Shot Walmart Air Rifle 😉
I think the only people who will be disappointed with this air rifle are those of us who know and love the IZH 61 and expected the TR5 to perform the same.
The TR5 will sell like hotcakes to typical big box store customers looking for a plinker one step up from a Red Ryder BB gun. The TR5 is a repeater, lightweight, backyard friendly, cocks easy and looks way cooler than most of the offerings from the likes of Gamo and Hatsan in that price range.
Bob,
Agree: “The TR5 will sell like hotcakes to typical big box store customers looking for a plinker one step up from a Red Ryder BB gun.”
Think you hit it right on! Like the suggested name-change as well LOL!
Hank
Hank,
…… “one step up from a Red Ryder”,…… That is pretty harsh! 😉 I have the 75th version and it is a “scatter gun” when compared to the 499.
And,…. what the heck are the big box customer’s going to do with a (side lever)? A side WHAT? “It’s BROKE!!!!,…. the barrel won’t break/cock!”,….. like all the rest of the Wally World break barrels.
If anyone wants a super accurate bb gun/rifle/long gun,….. get a 499 and be done with it. Period. End of of story. I have said it more than a few times before,….. that would be/should be a kid’s first bb gun in my opinion. A kid could be king of the neighborhood in short order. “50 cents per 10 shots boys”. Line up here!
Chris
Chris,
I’m not down on the TR5 – actually like it quite a bit and would probably buy one if an opportunity came up.
By my (personal) requirements (the 1″ maximum group) I see the TR5 as a 20 – 25 foot gun and IMHO that is a step up from the Red Ryders 10-15 foot Maximum Effective Range (MER). I’m not dissing either gun, it is what they are.
As the pinnacle of BB gun accuracy, I am curious about the 499 (especially with the power mod). But BB guns were never high in my interest… the tin and plastic smooth-bore Daisy’s just don’t compare to the machined steel, wood and rifled break-barrel pellet rifles I grew up with.
Hank
Oh and if anyone has any hat eating to do I suggest that they are dark chocolate this time. More healthy than milk chocolate. Heck you could eat a couple dark chocolate hats if you needed too. 😉
Gunfun1,
That is the first sane comment on this entire thread ;^)
Well, okay a few came close to giving the appearance!
DARK and at least 70%!!!
shootski
Shootski
Yep.
I have been looking for chocolate hats everywhere. Nothing good so far, and I don’t want to eat a real hat, so there 😉
Val
Now we are going to start seeing dark chocolate hats at Walmart after someone searches dark chocolate and finds the blog and reads it. 🙂
For sure. Still having hard time finding anything! Found a hat cake, but they would not ship it because it’s too fragile. Urgh… Frustrating…
Val
I got it. Maybe some one can make a ice tray with a 3D printer in the shape of small hats. Then fill the tray with some jello. Maybe not as healthy as dark chocolate but still good. Heck you could even use the jello hats as shooting targets. 🙂
GF1,
That’s a good idea that I will modify. Talk to your pastry chefs at Pyramyd AIR. There must be one or two. They might have a marzipan mold that would do the trick. My suggestion is to fill it with melted Hershey bars!
Here you go:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/255308180/food-safe-silicone-mould-xmas-hat-for?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_christmas_Craft_Supplies_and_Tools&utm_custom1=95904f3d-c130-4515-9105-4c652f092026&utm_content=go_1707294370_69268674929_331635229818_aud-318222619806:pla-295462056867_c__255308180&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_r3nBRDxARIsAJljleH8R5VxN0mZvuyGK-Y-g8Cc3R6ysaYcBqunE4bTDA-i4T-c8_2ZJIEaAgZCEALw_wcB
B.B.
And here:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/290200769721606949
B.B.
BB and Val
Before we all get through here we all will be wanting to eat or hats from now on.
🙂
GF1,
I was thinking the same thing! 😉
B.B.
BB
Yes sir.
🙂
Mr, Gaylord:
Here’s my impression of the testing you’ve done so far. From all your testing you’ve pretty conclusively established that this rifle is simply a “camp rifle”. If BSA would let cub scouts shoot multi-shot pellet rifles, the accuracy of the TR5 Multi-Shot Target Air Rifle would still be good enough for a cub to hit a 9 inch aluminum pie plate at ten meters. And that’s OK. As an instructor and coach, it’s just as satisfying to hear a cubbie yell out “I HIT IT” the first time he hits a pie tin as it is for an older junior to get her college rifle team scholarship.
Where did he get the chocolate hats? I see a really good use for those on a junior’s range as motivational tools. They might be something I’d like to add to my bag of tricks. Like “Jon if you you can shoot a score of ###-#X at the next practice “I’ll eat my hat” I’ve found that juniors love those kinds of challenges.
Respectfully,
William Schooley
William,
I believe he found a bakery that was willing to make a hat. I think he even mentioned finding them online!
B.B.
B.B.,
The great film director Werner Herzog famously said that if fellow film director Errol Morris ever finished making his documentary “Gates of Heaven” (NOT to be confused with “Heaven’s Gate”), he would eat his shoe. Morris did indeed finish his film, and Herzog did indeed eat a real shoe. Herzog even made a film documenting it. :^)
Michael
Michael,
I hope Herzog wore Danish on his feet — and I don’t mean wooden shoes! 🙂
B.B.
B.B.,
Hank/Vana2 mentined the amount of emotional interest in this particular air gun being unusually high.
That’s pretty perceptive. There certainly seems to be many of us who “want to like” the TR5 and/or “want to make it work.” And there seem to be many who don’t own one and have no intent to get one who fervently want the opposite, to dislike it and/or see it not work. Interesting.
I belong in the former camp, of course, although I had issues (mostly my fault, I think) with mine, since solved. I like everything about it,. It cocks effortlessly, weighs almost nothing and has an excellent trigger. For plinking mine is very accurate. Every positive discovery about it is welcomed by me. But your discovery that the accuracy issues you experienced might be easily explained and with a bit of ingenuity, remedied, appears to have made the detractors (who don’t own one) to more vigorously denigrate the TR5. This might make an interesting group psychology study, although that’s not a subject I know much about. Hmmm. :^)
Michael
Michael,
Oh, yes! This blog is a psychological petri dish — to mix metaphors!
B.B.
Hmmm. Wood shoes. The Netherlands?
Michael
Back in 2012, I ordered them online somewhere. I trashed remaining few about a year ago (received 12 of them, only ate one – it tasted like a real hat, so I did not eat anymore, nor gave any out).
Mr. Gaylord:
Sorry. I forgot that cubs shoot at 5 meters not 10 meters,
WS
B.B.,
A thought occurred to me (always a scary moment). Say, in a given clip, two cylinders produced tight groups using the chamber-specific bull method you devised. It would be interesting to see the two bulls for those two chambers overlayed with bright light revealing the bottom one, a sort of superimposing, to see if the POI of the two “accurate” cylinders is about the same.
Michael
Michael,
Well, here is my thinking. That first magazine seemed to pout the first 4 pellets in the same place. Why not shoot them and either waste the last shot or just not load it? I’m also thinking about doing that with chamber three in the second magazine.
B.B.
Michael
I have mentioned that in the past too. The over laying sort of.
When I would take one shot at each target you can pretty well see how the group would look if all shots were taken at one target.
Michael,
Color coding and superimposing multiple target faces to show the impact points for different chambers would be pretty easy to do in a photo-editing program.
Small groups are nice as they show that I have my act together – for that day anyway LOL! But being hunting oriented, I feel that correctly compensating for wind and trajectory to put the FIRST pellet on target is the true measure of accuracy.
To help with this, I frequently shoot single pellets at a target to determine POI relative to POA – which is difficult to determine when you have multiple pellets passing (somewhere) through a ragged hole in the target face. Glancing along a string of targets I find it fairly easy to see the total “group”.
Attached is a JPG of the targets I use (if you would like one I can send you a PDF).
Hank
Hank
Yes that is what I was talking about and what we have talked about before.
I like a gun that groups. But I also like one that hits the mark every shot.
Ask field target shooters and hunters about that. They take it one up from just shooting groups. They have to if they want do do thier shooting right.
Michael,
Yes! Quality Borescopes have built in bright lights and if correctly chosen will get you right to the place(s) in question. PA would do well to get B.B. one to use in his testing!
Silk Purse out of a Sow’s Ear!
shootski
I have had a bunch of IZH 60s but never had a 61. Did the 61s have magazine issues that affected accuracy? Luckily one of the guys I had sold one of my 60s to asked if I wanted to buy it back. So, I have a steel receiver 60 again. I wish I still had a rear aperture disk and front aperture insert. My brother Bryan and I shot our 60s in my shop the weekend before last during a rain storm. It was a fun way to pass the afternoon. I was shooting about quarter sized groups offhand at about 25 feet.
David Enoch
David,
Yes, many 61s do have issues with magazines. The plastic mags are almost guaranteed to have them, but the steel mags do as well.
B.B.
B.B.,
If what you surmise from the limited dynamic testing proves true then this is likely a tooling issue just as it probably was/became for the Russian’s version.
This Blog could easily become…The Never Ending Story!
You deserve better ;^)
shootski
I said it in other reports.
I 100% wish they would of made the TR5 a single shot.
No matter for what reason. But many reasons actually.
If it was a single shot I wonder how many of these discussions would of been over. But then again maybe we would still be having them. Maybe there would still be accuracy issues.
Guess we will find out more when bb tests his theory about the clips being the problem. At least we can narrow down the accuracy problem more if it holds true.
And no hat eating for me.just waiting to see how this all goes. 🙂
David,
Take a look: https://www.etsy.com/ie/listing/687396944/mp-61-mp-60-mp-512-sight-modern-type-has?ref=shop_home_active_12&frs=1
https://www.etsy.com/ie/listing/585902779/mp-61-izh-61-mp-60-izh-60-mp-512-sight?ref=shop_home_active_57&frs=1
Michael
Thanks Michael,
I am interested in their gas ram, one piece cylinder, and also the sights. You may have cost me some money.
David Enoch
Does this gun load the pellets into the barrel by means of a probe, or does it fire the pellets directly from the magazine?
Mel,
Probe.
B.B.
I just watched an interesting video on American Airguner. It showcases the Umarex Hammer being used to take a big black bear in Alberta, Canada. The Hammer is a pretty impressive big bore airgun fully capable of taking most North American big game. This airgun is indeed a Hammer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj53RU6XYgs&feature=em-uploademail
Geo
Yep I like it.
George,
Yeah, it’s impressive, but it’s been 4 years and the gun is still not available.
B.B.
Would be interesting to know why.
B.B.,
I would assume that the Umarex Hammer .50 caliber is a very unique airgun that would not appeal to the masses. I have seen videos of Jim Chapman using it to shoot some big game a couple of times. It’s pretty much a single purpose airgun…big game only, and definitely not a plinker. 😉 I cannot see the demand being high enough for the Hammer that Umarex would continue making it. I see it more as a novelty myself. But, it does demonstrate an airgun’s capabilities.
Geo
George,
Yeah — and nobody mentions that you get a free glaucoma test with every shot!
B.B.
It does appear to have a pretty good kick to it…
George,
A glaucoma test is a strong puff of air in the eye to measure the deflection of the eyeball. This rifle blasts you in the right eye with every shot!
B.B.,
Hey Bugbuster!
Haven’t heard anything from you in over a week. Hope everything is okay? Were you able to use the link I sent you to my Google Drive to see the pictures you asked for? I have completed the build of the new pellet trap / backstop for my basement range and am now using it to verify my POI on the Urban. I bumped the barrel yesterday slightly on an end table, so had to make sure the POI was still on.
The barrel band on the Urban can be problematic. I used my hand and bumped on either side of the moderator and then shot a few shots. The POI moved to the left about 2″ at 17 yards. Then I loosened the barrel band, closely watching for any barrel movement. I didn’t notice any movement but then when I re-tightened the barrel band, the POI came back to “0” again. It appears that if the barrel is bumped, even ever so slightly, the barrel band holds the barrel and does not allow it to spring back to it’s normal position. This is my observation anyway.
Geo