by Tom Gaylord, The Godfather of Airguns™
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Ruger Air Hawk combo is very popular.
This report covers:
• Doing something different
• Tightened the barrel joint
• Sight-in and the first group with Hobby pellets
• Air Arms Falcon pellets
• RWS Superdome pellets
• H&N Baracuda Match pellets
• JSB Exact Express pellets
• Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets
• Alternate hold
I started this test in July but have laid off for several weeks. Thanks for bearing with me. Today, we’ll look at the accuracy of the Ruger Airhawk combo at 10 meters.
I’m looking at this combo because a number of readers say they really like the rifle. Of course, it’s been compared to an RWS Diana 34, but I wouldn’t go that far. Yes, there are similarities between the two rifles, but they’re not identical. And each has its own unique firing characteristics — and we’ll all learn a lot about those as I fire the rifle for accuracy using the open sights.
If this rifle proves to be accurate, it’ll be a best buy, given the price of just $130. I know my test rifle is shooting slower than the advertised velocity, but I plan on testing the velocity, again, after the accuracy test, so don’t give up just yet.
Doing something different
I’m changing the way I test air rifles in an attempt to make some progress faster than in the past. I’ll shoot just 5 shots at 10 meters off a rest with each pellet and then look at the group. If the group shows promise, I will come back to the pellet. If not, I’ll move on. That way, I’ll be able to test more pellets in the same time.
I’ll also test at least 2 different variations of the artillery hold — the 2 that have proven the most successful over the years. If one seems better than the other, I’ll continue to use that hold for all the other tests.
Tightened the barrel joint
I noticed last time that the barrel joint wasn’t tight. This barrel has a bolt that can be tightened, so I removed the action from the stock and tightened the barrel pivot bolt. When I was doing that, I noticed that all of them were loose. The inletting of the action in the stock was very tight — fully the equal of anything made in Europe. That gives me hope this rifle will be accurate.
Sight-in and the first group with Hobby pellets
I sighted-in the gun and shot the first group with RWS Hobby pellets. Sight-in amounted to just one shot that told me the rifle was on target from the factory.
I’m showing the sight-in shot along with the first group for two reasons. First, it shows how low the first shot was, yet I knew I’d be okay because I was shooting from just 12 feet. I knew the group would hit the paper higher. Second, it shows how much the shots climbed on target when I shot from 10 meters. This lesson demonstrates that you cannot sight-in a gun for anything under 10 yards and expect it to be on at any other distance. Even 10 meters is too close to sight-in a rifle if you expect to ever hit things at 15 yards and beyond. The sights are too close to the target, and the angular separation from the bore is too great when you’re this close.
I held the rifle on the flat of my off hand with the triggerguard touching the heel of that hand. The group of 5 Hobbys measures 0.678 inches between centers. This is too large for a 10-meter group, so Hobbys are out of consideration.
The sight-in shot hit below the bull, telling me the rifle was sighted-in. Five RWS Hobbys made a 0.678-inch group at 10 meters. Not good enough!
After this group, I adjusted the rear sight 7 clicks to the left but didn’t touch the elevation. The sight remained in that setting for the rest of this test.
Air Arms Falcon pellets
Next, I tried Air Arms Falcon pellets. Falcons hit the target well-centered but much lower than the Hobbys. Five pellets went into a group that measures 0.493 inches between centers. While that isn’t as good as I’d like to see at 10 meters, it does show some promise. I’ll probably shoot Falcons from 25 yards, as well.
Five Air Arms Falcon pellets went into 0.493 inches at 10 meters. This is interesting.
RWS Superdome pellets
Next, I tried RWS Superdomes. They gave me a puzzling result. Four of the 5 pellets went into 0.506 inches, but the final shot opened the group to 0.906 inches. That might have been an aiming error; but at 10 meters, I usually don’t make mistakes that large. I might try these again, but not if I find 2 other pellets that are better.
Five RWS Superdome pellets went into 0.906 inches, but 4 of them are in 0.506 inches. Interesting, but not good enough.
H&N Baracuda Match pellets
Next, I shot 5 H&N Baracuda Match pellets. Sometimes these pellets that seem too heavy for a gun will surprise you with their accuracy, although I have to say that happens more with heavy .22-caliber pellets than with .177s. It certainly didn’t happen this time. Five Baracuda Match went into 1.372 inches. Although 3 pellets are close, I don’t think this pellet is right for this rifle.
Five Baracuda Match pellets in 1.372 inches at 10 meters. Not the pellet for this rifle.
JSB Exact Express pellets
Five JSB Exact Express pellets were next. I have to confess that, while I like JSB pellets a lot, I’ve never had any luck with the Express pellet in either caliber. Today was no different. Five went into a 1.466-inch group that proved to be the largest of the test. Definitely out of the running for this rifle!
JSB Exact Express pellets made the largerst group of the test — 5 in 1.466 inches at 10 meters.
Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets
I felt I had to try the 7.9-grain Crosman Premier pellet that’s often the best in some rifles. And I got an interesting result. The first pellet hit the target high and near the center of the bull. Then the next 4 dropped over one inch and grouped in 0.411 inches.
As a 5-shot group, Premier lites were not impressive, but only the first shot is apart from the group. Four went into 0.411 inches at 10 meters. This is a pellet worth testing further.
This group is small enough to interest me, so I shot a second group of 10 pellets. They landed in 0.746 inches, which is okay, but not the best. However, if you look at the group, you can see that 6 of the 10 pellets went into a much tighter group that’s a single hole measuring 0.357 inches between centers. I know that aiming errors can put me off by as much as these 4 outlying pellets at 10 meters, so this group gives me confidence that the Airhawk can really shoot.
Ten Premier lites went into 0.746 inches at 10 meters, but 6 of them went into just 0.357 inches. That looks promising!
I then tried the same Premier lite pellets with my off hand slid forward so I could feel the beginning of the cocking slot against my palm. Now that I know this is a good pellet, I can try different things like this. Five pellets went into 0.852 inches, which isn’t good — but look where 3 of them went! That hole is a group measuring 0.069 inches! I don’t think that was due to the different hold, but I do think it tells me this rifle can really shoot and that the Premier lite pellet is right for this gun.
Using an alternate artillery hold, 5 Premier lites went into 0.852 inches. While that isn’t so good, 3 of those pellets went into 0.069 inches. I think the rifle can shoot, and this pellet is the right one — but the first hold is best.
Edith spotted the fact that I may have skewed the test results by not seasoning the barrel for each pellet. I guess that’s the down side of shooting so many 5-shot groups. It does bring up a good point. I think that when I move back to 25 yards, I’ll season the barrel with 20 shots per pellet before shooting the first 10-shot group.
She also suggested that I do a seasoned barrel vs. unseasoned barrel accuracy test. There are enough of you who believe in the seasoning process, so that makes such a test worth the effort.
But, based on the rather wide spread on these groups at 10 meters, I have decided to not do the 25-yard test and end this report here. I have enough holes in my walls and woodwork already.
141 thoughts on “Ruger Air Hawk combo: Part 4”
Did it sound like there were any hot rounds during this session?
No. Everything sounded the same.
Yes, I believe in seasoning with different pellets.
I’ll even go so far off the scale of sanity to say that in more powerful airguns I clean barrels after they’ve shot hard pellets, like ones containing antimony, since subsequent seasoning with lead pellets haven’t unfouled the barrels.
Mind you this is only with powerful airguns and the power doesn’t have to be that high on some airguns with rough factory barrels. The B guns like the B26 come to mind.
I knew I’d hear from you on this. And I believe I see it in the results, too.
My plan is the continue to shoot at 25 yards with the Premiers, so the barrel is almost seasoned right now. Then I will clean it and season it with Falcons, to see whether they are also a good pellet.
Remember — I still have the combo scope to test yet!
The barrel crud stains are clearly visible on the targets at the circumference of the holes. It’s especially prominent with the first group of falcons and appears to clear up some as the testing progresses. This could be excess lubricants blowing off, dieseling products, and microscopic debris left in the barrel after manufacturing. I’d say a cleaning is definitely called for.
I will clean the barrel after I shoot the Premiers at 25 yards.
You may remember I had one of these last year and sold it at the Roanoke show. Though I was not impressed with the scope, I was able to adjust the parallax to where it was usable. My experience with the one I had was that it was a pretty good shooter once I learned how to deal with the trigger, which I did not care for.
The trigger on the one I had was very inconsistent. I had adjusted mine to where there was very little first stage. Most of the time it had a long, creepy second stage and you never really knew when it would go off, but every once in a while it would throw you a curve and have the sweetest, lightest, crisp pull you could possibly ask for.
Maybe I could have fooled with the trigger some and made it pretty decent, but I have my BSA now. 🙂
Try to pay attention to whether the trigger pull varies on this one.
I should have mentioned it in this report, but the trigger on this test rifle is perfect. I would recommend a rifle costing three times as much if it had a trigger this good.
I really don’t want to hear things like that. I am having a hard enough time not buying geegobs of airguns without hearing that a very inexpensive one has a real nice trigger. It sounds like they must have changed the trigger assembly after the one I had was made.
By the way, what are you doing up so early this morning?
If it will make near-same 10-shot group with Premiers at 25, I’d say it is a great combo – especially for the money.
Did oil burn out? As far as I remember previous tests, there was a sort of issue with unconstant speeds. From my own experience sometimes you have to completely de-grease the powerplant and then re-lube it again proper way to get the real performance out of rifle – a really boring process.
Last weekend I’ve seen really interesting proof of the fact that weather affects accuracy. As you know, I’m making a custom laminated grip for CO2 revolver. Plywood does not suffer from humidity change as real wood, however difference is visible. The week before was very hot and dry, with Ts going up to 32C and the grip was basically made in that period. Last weekend was cooler and a little rainy, with humidity levels rising. So two halves of the grip that were fit to look as one piece at dry 32C, made a visible gap of 0.5 mm at humid 23C. Imagine the same going on with your rifle’s wood and you can see why sport shooters prefer alloy stocks 🙂
The smell tells me the oil is still burning out. I want to test the velocity at the end of accuracy testing, to see where the rifle ends up. By that time I will have several hundred shots on the action and it should have started settling down.
Tough luck with the wood, but at least you did a good job to begin with. If I had made them they would have looked as though they were left behind by a rabid beaver. 😉
duskwight,I feel for man.Two years ago I made a Walnut/white oak custom stock for my talonp and everything was just great until those HU and Midity brothers came to visit this spring.During the winter everything was OK.But as the moister content Begin to raise the poi would Begin to suffer just a tad.Everyday the poi would change just perhaps 1/4 to 1/2′ at 80 feet.That’s ways to much if your hunting wanting to stay inside of a quarter or dime. Much to my pain I had to remove it a put the factory stock back on.Then it stayed on zero and never veers.Now the stock I made for my Mrod does not do that because the barrel does not touch the wood.With the TalonP there was no way around it and it was a four piece stock that all came together in one place and swelling was a problem.The stock was a Rattle snake complete with scales,head that fit over your shoulder with a white oak for-arm with walnut veins and the air tank was in cased in walnut but it still screwed out due to my design.Hated to remove that stock but accuracy is the last word.
Based on the definition we follow around here about what makes an interesting airgun this one doesn’t seem to come close to making the grade. Since this is not then an interesting airgun why are you spending so much time on it? I just felt the question begged to be asked? Not trying to be a smart ass. Based on everything I’ve seen to date this is not only not an interesting gun, it’s boring. Please don’t yell at me. Although I can take it if you feel compelled to do so.
There are a lot of people who can’t afford an expensive airgun. This one only costs $130 with a scope. The Bronco costs the same but this rifle is more powerful, and perhaps more accurate, but that remains to be seen.
I’m testing it for them, because I want there to be an inexpensive powerful airgun that I can recommend.
I know that and I apologize. Due to some issues I’m having with my son I have a an ax to grind with the world right now. I should have kept my mouth shut this morning. The trials and tribulations of being a parent. They never seem to stop (he’s 27 for heaven’s sake).
I don’t know if this will help or not but the only high power inexpensive springer I have kept is my Gamo Silent Cat. The firing cyle on it is very smooth and I can usually get 1/2″ to less than 1″ groups with it at 25 yards. If your looking for inexpensive rifles to recommend this one sells for $159.99 with scope and as I said, I originally had 5 inexpensive high power springers and this is the only one I kept. My other springer’s are the R9, HW30S, TX200 and Walther LGV Master Ultra. I also have the Ruger Explorer and IZH61 for plinking fun.
Anyway, for a higher power inexpensive springer I will recommend the Gamo Silent Cat.
I would try some RWS Superpoints. I have had good luck with them in my Diana 34. They also shoot well in my FWB 124. I have been surprised how well they shoot. I would agree that it needs to shot more to discover how good it can be.
There will always be a pellet I didn’t try. I may have time to try Superpoints at 25 yards, though they are generally not good in .177 breakbarrels, it my experience.
I know shooter that shoots about 20 shots thought he barrel after they cleaned it before shooting Sighter shots in a competition. I also know people that fire 3 or 4 shots at the start of a competition just before they fire Sighter shots, and this is to warm up the target rifle (.22LR) barrel, but what exactly is “seasoning the barrel “?
Seasoning refers to the interior of the barrel being ideal for the pellet being shot. Apparently each pellet deposits a small amount of its lead inside the barrel that makes the barrel surface best for performance of that pellet. When you change pellets, the type of lead changes and must be redeposited before the new pellet will do its best.
In firearms, this includes bullet lubrication, as well.
FYI all: My 2008 Ruger AirHawk is now delivering (after ~2200 shots):
0.50″ 5-grp at 10 meters, using Disco Heavy pellets
0.55″ 5-grp at 50 ft, using H&N CrowMags
0.55″ 5-grp at 50 ft, using H&N Barracudas
0.55″ 5-grp ONCE, at 75 ft, using cheap Tomahawks!
(no weight-sorting of pellets, but rejecting any (IF any) visible flawed pels)
That is very good data that I will try to keep in mind as I test this rifle. Ten-shot groups should be about 40 percent larger.
I had it brought home this weekend about how important barrel seasoning is.
Now that my sons Marlins are well broken in (about a 1000 rounds ea) I decided it was time to try some higher end ammo.
Have been using CCI Standard Velocity and getting 1.5-2″ groups at 100m for the last year and decided to try some RWS and Eley target ammo to see if we could get the boys shooting 1MOA.
Tried the RWS this weekend. Loaded up a couple of mags each and let the boys have at it.
The first groups were in the 4-6″ neighborhood and I thought that would be the end of that.
But I remembered what I had read on this very forum about pellet gun seasoning and how rimfires are as picky as pellet guns and we persevered.
By the end of the session (about 100 rounds through each gun) we were getting solid 1.25″ groups, easily 25% better than the CCI.
The downside is the RWS is twice the price of the CCI…but hey, accuracy costs, right? 😉
Good to hear from you, neighbor — eh? 😉
Glad this blog has helped you in this way.
Hey B.B….I’d have a hard time adding up all the things this blog has taught me.
I frequent a couple of other blogs, mostly blogs related to specific firearms…but for information that is applicable to all types of shooting…you and Edith (and all the others who frequent this place) tops the list.
This is my first time posting here.
This is the very air gun that got me into PCP’s !!!! My experience with the accuracy of this gun is exactly the same as this report. I got into air guns about 4 years ago because fire arm ammo was getting expensive and difficult to find.
Going to a range with all the range fees, cease fires and hassle of carrying all the stuff for 6 or more guns was a time wasting experience just for some target practice.
So, I bought one of these guns at Academy. I experienced these same results and was discouraged AGAIN! So I bought a Crosman 1377 pistol also from Academy and fabricated a barrel-clamped scope mount using a Crosman 0410 Targetfinder scope. Using a bent elbow hold (without the shoulder stock), I was able to get much better groups. However this was not a rifle and I wanted to shoot using airguns for fire arm training.
I met an air gunner at a tool store that is owned by a friend. We got together later for a shoot at my warehouse where I had been shooting my air guns. He brought his 2 PCP guns and that was my introduction to PCP’s. I have 2 Marauders, 1 rifle and 1 pistol, and I am still trying to afford all the gear it takes to do PCP’s.
Welcome to the blog! Some subtle clues tell me you might be a Texan (dtx, Academy). If so, will I see you at the Ft. Worth airgun show on Saturday, September 6? I hope so.
remember when you told me about the seller on gun broker with that webley hawk air rifle for sale. What is the difference between the webley hawk and this ruger air hawk if any or is it just a webley rebranded by ruger.
Both are Chinese made air rifle. Beyond that, I don’t know, but I do know that the current Webley people always go on the cheap, so I doubt the rifle are the same.
Ok thanks for the info as I was just trying to find out if there was a difference between the two as if one was a well built quality gun versus and the other one was not. so they both are mid to low range guns.
I got your text that you got the tray. You said it fit your gun nice. Was going to shoot and started raining.
Did you get to go back out and try it. And the metal mags will now load in the gun. Let me know if its working out ok.
I left you a post on the photographing airguns blog also.
Yes it fits like a glove and I think it fits better than if hatsan had made it themselves. The metal mags just roll off the tip over my fingers and right into place without having to fiddle or reposition the pellet at all. The way you made the lead in ramp slightly angled and then the left side raised up to the height of the breech opening so that the pellets have to stop and lay centered in the 3/4 groove is perfect and it is snug enough of a fit that it does not move or try to slide around at all. The bolt probe clears it perfectly and picks up the pellet and slides it right into the barrel without any snagging or hanging up. IT IS PERFECT is all I can say.
I did shoot in some but with my grand son here I cannot really get to test the pellets with out interruptions and being able to concentrate 100% on the sighting and chrony numbers. I am going to get the testing done tomorrow AM when he is off to school because as we talked about he gets on the bus at 6:30 so I will just stay up and start the testing before the afternoon rain can get started.
I will have more info tomorrow for sure but it fits all the pellets I have in 22 cal with out any issues.
I hope you kept the measurements in a program when you made this one because you need to make yours identical to it.
Hope you are caught up so you can get yours done tonight so you can be able to shoot the metal mags also.
Let you know more tomorrow. if you get time tonight we can talk some more on the blog or text me because I will be up late.
I slapped the 36 back together today for a few rounds. I left it standing at about a 45 degree angle overnight and sure enough gotta couple little wisps of smoke outta one of the first 3 8.18’s,just plinking and warming it up but just didn’t feel it today.Plenty of heat to go around though!I’m gonna see how long I can let the oil cure before I do another layer. It’s a totally different gun now, worthy of respect in accuracy and looks as well! Thanks for your help with it!
One of these days I’ll grab the camera and snap a couple shots to share.
I slapped the 36 together for a few shots while the oil cures. I left it standing in a corner overnight to see if it’s still got some lube and sure enough gotta wisp of smoke outta one of the first 3.I was plinking with those 8.18 Stoeger Match to get it warmed up for testing those 7.2 grain Daisy pointed and ran outta steam. It’s a totally different gun now, worthy of respect in both accuracy and looks.Thank you for your help with it!Only time will tell how long I can go without messing with it again
You are more than welcome and I am glad I have been able to help you get it back to a good shooting gun. I hope you shoot it and get some enjoyment out of it before you get back into it as you stated.
If it is shooting good and looks good then don’t fix it if it ain’t broke.
If it got the leather seal in it, it will probably smoke for about the first 30 or so shots as my B3-2 still put out a little puff of smoke for the first three or four shots every time I shoot it. The leather soaks up the oil and it takes a long time to dry out. If its smoking it is still lubed.
buldawg I will reply at the bottom.
B.B. – Thanks for your welcome message.
Yes, I plan to go to the FW show and look forward to meeting you in person.
Talking of affordable high power air rifles, the Crosman Vantage seems to be highly recommended. Five Star reviews. Will you be reviewing this gun as well sometime Sir? Its a fine looking gun just like the Air Hawk, also Chinese made. I would get me one if you favour it, as we have a dealer in my city. In hope here.
No plans to look at the Vantage at this time.
As far as .177 rifles go and anybody that knows me knows over the years I’ve grown fairly picky about my airguns, this one isn’t too bad. It is my most trusted squirrel killer and has dropped quite a few squirrels where they stood. So to me it must be accurate to do that. Only real issues I’ve had is the fiber optic sights tend to break and I need to replace them. Don’t ask me how they are breaking I don’t really know since the gun only ever gets used about half a dozen times a year at best.
I need a rear sight blade for my QB-36, I pulled it out to see if I could do something with what’s left of it but it didn’t look promising. Anybody know where these blades may be available?
I will be waiting for that blog about seasoning the barrel.
Seasoning the barrel for a particular pellet? I’m embarrassed to admit I do not know what that means.
This is what I told Joe,
Seasoning refers to the interior of the barrel being ideal for the pellet being shot. Apparently each pellet deposits a small amount of its lead inside the barrel that makes the barrel surface best for performance of that pellet. When you change pellets, the type of lead changes and must be redeposited before the new pellet will do its best.
In firearms, this includes bullet lubrication, as well.
So after shooting one type of pellet in a rifle, one should thoroughly clean the barrel before seasoning and using a different pellet?
No. You just start shooting the next pellet and after 20-30 shots the bore is seasoned for that pellet.
You only have to clean after some pellets with antimony leave smears of lead in the bore.
BB.off topic.Maybe someday you might consider testing some of these newer hollow points,polymags and etc.There are some pretty good ones out there now.And testing them only in the most powerful PCPs for expansion and of course accuracy and at a real world hunting distance at around 60 ,80 feet and 100.I have seen people test at point blank range with ballistic putty but how could that tell anyone anything? Its to close and I can’t ever remember a groundhog or squirrel walking to my barrel putting his mouth over it and begging me to pull the trigger.I think it would be interesting facts at the expansion at these distances for us hunters.And this wouldn’t be a test of a winner or anything just facts any given distances with different pellets say 800 fps Thur 1100. I did my own last year with the Polymags at 60 feet with the TalonP and I was very impressed with the mushroom size after the fourth jug of water stopped it.The measurement was from 8.5mm to 9 mm in the 25 cal.
I am trying to work some of these new pellets into my accuracy cests.
The Escape had them, and I have done some others.
I haven’t tested the pellets, themselves, because it seems the gun is always a part of the equation.
Hello BB, and All
I really like this particular gun, and see a lot of promise in a couple of the sub groups you choose to illustrate in this accuracy test. We all know about that one special gun that eventually come into it’s own, but only after a tin or two of pellets. Unfortunately for me, the only reasonable way of shooting 500-1000 pellets is with passage of ordinary time. But shooting is my way of enjoying the fruits of my labour. Not boring at all. One technique I have taken to using with great success is a range diary. This is were I jot down crony readings, pellet info, and shooting results as well as my personal observations….ie. how I am feeling health wise as well my thoughts and observations about a particular guns performance. There is no better way to store, retain, and recall important details concerning 15 air rifles and pistols. My long term memory is great, however we are talking about short term cognition here, and this is the memory most of us have trouble recalling as we advance in years. I just celebrated my 63rd year on planet earth and I’m looking forward to enjoying a couple more decades shooting and tinkering on my air guns. This blog is proven to be a godsend to me on more then one occasion, and will continue reading for as long as BB chooses to write.
Happy Birthday! Edith just turned 66 herself, so August must be the month when famous people are born.
buldawg Im glad it fit a n is working out for you. You will have to let me know if you think it helped your gun out accuracy wise.
And I just got through making a tray for me. It turned out good. And I took some pictures of it with. My new phone so I will try to post them later when I get home.
And yep I do have a program of the tray. Its in my brain. 😉
And remember I made it on the manual milling machine. It really is a easy part to make actually.
But yep now maybe we can compare our shooting results on our guns if they helped out any.
Glad you got your tray made and also glad your memory is better than mine. That is very good work for being done manually.
I had a two year course while at Harley in machining taught by one of the other mechanics that was a master machinist and he was like you in that he could keep the numbers and steps in his head and I learned quite a bit in the class that has allowed me to make the spring guides and fill fitting for my guns from drawing’s that I have made over on my friend equipment. One of the test we had to complete to pass the machinist class was to make a 1 inch square block of steel from a 2 inch round bar stock and mine was within .0005″ of being exactly 1 inch square and this was on a smithy granite three in one machine.
I am hoping to get a small 3 in 1 so I can do more custom parts for myself here at home, but that will not likely happen until I get my disability.
But I will see if it helps my accuracy over the repeater magazine and I just hope the metal mags are an accurate pellet in the hatsan. We will know soon enough.
I have machined so much stuff on the manual Bridgeport milling machine and the lathes its just like eating and sleeping to me. I’m not bragging it’s just what I do. That’s what happens when you do something for too many years. 🙂
But I’m going to try to post the pictures of mine when I get home tonight. And maybe I will take a picture of it in my Hatsan and post it also. Will see if I can get a good picture of it in the gun. So I will talk to you later when I get home. My wife is off tomorrow so she will get up with the kids and I can sleep in a bit.
Machining to you is like fixing OBDII computer controls in cars and the far simpler speed density system that Harley still use today, you have done it so long it is second nature.
When I worked for Cadillac and would go out on the lot to get in a car for a customer to repair they had on board diagnostics and by pushing buttons on the A/C panel in certain sequences I could read codes and test sensor or solenoids while pulling it in to the shop and 90% of the time know what was wrong before I had it parked in my stall and knew every code by heart and could fix them blindfolded. Then at Harley I had to remember what I had forgot about the first simple fuel injection systems and could fix them without even looking in a manual .
So I understand that when you do jobs like we have done for so long you don’t really have to think much about it to get er done,
Get some rest when you get home and will talk to you tomorrow, P.S. the power just went out here again and its still raining again. Don’t mess with Mother Nature.
I’m on my phone right now. We had a storm last night and power and cable was out. Power is back on but cable is still not working.
I will post the pictures of my tray when they get the cable running again. But I did test fit the one I just made for me and it works fine.
And it sure does make things easier when you do something for a long time.
And hopefully they get my cable working. Ain’t technology wonderful.
My dog won’t leave the water spigot alone in the back yard.He wants the fresh water outta the spigot so he chews on it until he gets it to leaking. I changed the seal and now it opens and closes much easier. I don’t know if that’s a good or bad thing but I’m trying it. At least now if someone leaves it leaking I know it can be easily turned completely of with minimal effort. Time will tell.
Cables working now. I’m going to try to post the pictures of my tray. And the pictures was taken from my new phone.
Sound like mother nature was mad at everyone last night. The pictures turned out good at least in my book but then I am not a photographer either, seems that the tray looks very familiar to me LOL.
It was not a good day again only today it was the wife not feeling good so I had to help her and take care of her so no shooting yet and now it is 98 degrees out so I will wait till later.
I am planning to go to the air gun clubs sight in range this Saturday so I can sight at varying yards and get the hatsan sighted for the JSB 15.89 and metal and poly mags as they are all right at the same weight area with the JSBs at 15.89, poly mags at 16gr and the metal mags at 17 gr. So if I can get them hitting in the bulls then I can use the 1/2 mill to compensate for the other heavier or lighter pellets that I shoot at times. it will be easier there and I really want/hope the metal mags are capable of grouping in 1 inch at 50 yards. If I can get the three to group in an inch at 50 then I will be satisfied with them and can adjust as necessary for the others.
I will let you know how they turn out.
Just love technology and the way everything stops when the power does, remember when we grew up you could still go to a store and buy stuff even if the power was out.
Talk to you later and it is thundering here again, its the time of year you can set your clock by the storms.
I definitely ain’t no picture taker. You have to let me know how you’re shooting goes.
I no picture taker either. I will let you know how my shooting goes Saturday.
Just a FYI, I got my adjuster drilled and tapped and put the one in my 22 cal and cannot cock the hammer back. I took the adjuster out and installed the black spring in the stock end cap and reassembled and still cannot cock the hammer. I took it back apart again and checked the spring height extending out of the stock end cap and the Prod end cap and with the Prod at its lowest tension setting and the heights are the same so that black spring is plainly way to stiff to allow the hammer to be pulled back against the spring without causing the hammer to be forced sideways by the bolt applying pressure to the top of the hammer against the pin and causing the hammer to cock sideways in the tube and bind up due to spring pressure. I am going to go to ace hardware to find a spring in between the stock one and the way to heavy black one to allow for me to go to 3k and be able to cock the hammer back with reasonable effort. I felt that if I put any more force on the bolt handle that it would snap it off in the bolt as the bolt would only move about 1/4 inch before it bound up.
This to me is another case of Hi-pac not doing it homework thoroughly enough before releasing the product, because I have now found 2 issues with their product that although minor in terms of being fixable easily represent to me insufficient testing before releasing for sale and at the premium prices that they ask for their products all those little issues should have been found, addressed and solved. I guess it comes from to many years of being a perfectionist in what I do regardless if it is a 50 cent toy or a 500,000 dollar vehicle or work of art. If my hands are going to touch it the work performed will be to, the very best of my ability.
Its like the tray you just made for our hatsan’s it could not have been made any better by the factory and you made it to your obviously same high standard of work as we both strive for every day in every thing we do.
I will get it to work with the adjuster and 3k psi but I just feel that it all should have been already have been worked out in research and development of the product.
I did not mean to bend your ear but it just frustrates me when I have to fix a problem with something I pay good money for that should have already been solved.
Looks like they oughtta roll right in there!
Its actually working out better than I thought. I shot about 35 shots today with it and it held the poi nice. I didn’t get that spreading out of the group at the end of the fill like I did with the clips. So now possibly more usable shots per fill with the tray. And yep they just roll right in place like you said.
I’m going to shoot it more tomorrow with the tray. So will see how that goes.
The pellets almost load themselves and it fit like a glove.
Definite quality piece of work.
The rubber one in my 953 has to be slid out if one flips over backwards and it flexes and binds when pushing it back in if it gets dry. I’ve never tried a magazine in it but it’s a one holer for sure with the tray!
I had a 953 and used the single shot tray and the 5 shot clip with good luck. They are nice guns.
Go to the bottom its to thin here.
The trays Gunfun made for him and me are made of delrin and I don’t think a pellet will flip over in these trays because he made them with a angle built in that cause the pellets to drop right in place and slide into the barrel just about by their self.
He can actually tell you more because he has shot more with my tray before he sent it to me and with the one he made for himself last night than I have shot with mine so far.
I am 100% going to go to the local air gun club sighting range Saturday to get mine sighted for the metal mags and 15.89 pellets rain or shine, flood or no flood it will get done.
I wish my 853 had a C after the 853 so I could use a clip for just plinking in the back yard. It is very accurate but only shoots in the 500 fps area so it is not real good for any long range hunting, but if I could get the squirrels to stay inside my fence line they would be out of luck because you have to try and miss with it with the peep sights. Peep sights are the only open sight that I can hit anything with my less than perfect eyesight.
I’ll have to Chrony mine tomorrow, It’got quite a bit more zip than 500 fps since I did the head space reduction mod, I’m thinking it’s running about 6-7 fpe. I’m comfortable taking grackles out to 20 yards with it when I got sight batteries, but I’d want backup for a squirrel. Have you done this mod yet? It doubled the effective range of mine!
Did you see the e-mail about the 600?
Thanks buldawg. I was hoping the tray would turn out good for you.
And I really thought that spring that came with the hi-pak was to heavy for the striker.
Let me know what you come up with.
I have some springs coming from ebay that I hope will be just right for the Hi-pacs at 3k psi, they should be here tomorrow or Saturday, got no tracking # so not really sure but they were 5 bucks with free shipping and supposed to be quality wound piano wire with ground ends for 2240, 2260.
I will let you know what they are like when they get here as I ordered 2 for both 2240 hi-pacs and that was even before I tried the black springs because I also thought they were way to stiff from the beginning.
That is why I say hi-pac did not do their homework. I even wonder if they tried a black spring in a gun at all.
That’s one of the most important things to get right on the Benjamin and Crosman guns is striker spring weight.
Tom, Please clean the barrel, JB bore paste etc…it makes a big difference. The factory puts tons of goo in there to keep them from rusting…
Even before I shoot the Premiers?
Do the first round of testing then clean…
That’s what I thought.
Can’t even get my own name right now
We’ve been invaded by the Airhawk blog!
Yes I know it one very important piece of the main operation and performance in air guns and especially PCPs. I hope the spring I ordered are the right ones if not I will go to my local Ace hardware because they have a good selection of springs and then there is also McMaster Carr.
I will find the right one and having the adjuster makes it a little easier due to having some lead way in the tension.
I have cut many striker springs to get the velocity where I wanted it in a gun.
I have don it to so that’s is a option also.
buldawg I’m never satisfied with the factory striker spring. I change them always on my Benjamin and Crosman guns. Even the first generation Mrods I had.
The only Crosman/Benjamin guns that I have right now that is factory original is my .177 and .25 cal. synthetic stock Mrods. They seem to have the tune on them on the money.
Going to be off the next 3 days so I plan on getting some shooting in.
Sounds good, take the phone off the hook or don’t answer it. I am going to try and get all my sighting and chronying in Saturday myself. It is supposed to be in the 98 to 99 with a heat index of 102 so it will be a scorcher, but at least the sight in area at the air gun club is covered so I will be in the shade if that helps , probably not much at 100+ degree’s.
Will let you know how it all turns out . I will be testing the 10.5 CP in the firepower break barrel also that is still a sweet little break barrel and for 40 bucks I would buy another one in a heart beat, but I have not seen any more on gun broker since that one and it is a rebranded crosman so parts will not be a problem. The only other ones I saw was the link I sent you to those refurbished one at air gun depot. I should have bought another one from them because they were still a deal at 70 bucks. I find myself picking it up to plink in the backyard almost every time because it is just cock and shoot and it is way overkill at 15 yards for the power it makes.
We have the same forecast for today as you have. Its a little cloudy but its hot out. Got go out and cut the grass. Couldn’t cut it last weekend cause of the rain or during this week for that fact.
And I’m glad I got my HW break barrel also. It is nice just to grab it real quick and make some shots wipe it off and put it away ready for next time.
Also I’m pretty sure I will be minus one gun today. Remember when my brother in-law came up from Texas a little while back. He liked that FX Monsoon I have. He said he was interested in it. Well he txt me at work last night and said he was sending me the money today. I told him I’m keeping the Hawke scope off of it though. He said no problem. So that’s some good gun hobby money coming my way. Kind of a little bummed about selling the gun but there is others I want. So I guess it will work out.
But let me know how your shooting goes. Talk to you later.
That’s sounds good and bad getting rid of your monsoon, but having money for a new toy is also good.
I have been tearing into the little IMC pioneer 3 I got from gun broker and it is raining again here this afternoon so I am going to do my shooting tomorrow morning at the range.
I will get the hatsan sighted for the metal and poly mags and JSB 15.89s. Then see if I get my break barrel to group with the 10.5 gr CPs at 50 yards also. Hopefully before it gets to hot and rains.
Will give you update tomorrow afternoon.
Let me know how it goes.
And yep I will miss it a bit but I can buy 3 nice guns with the money I’m getting for it. I may get one gun with the money. And probably that kit to make the .25 cal. shrouded barrel 2240 conversion that I want to try at 3000 psi. So it will be a good thing.
That sounds like a plan and I want to know how the 25 cal 2240 turns out.
I just got my two hammer spring for the 2240s and the rear brackets from crosman so I will be getting the 22 cal completed to sight tomorrow also and I will let you know how the hammer springs fit and if they are stiff enough but still be able to cock it.
Got to get to working on them so will let you know more later.
buldawg go to bottom.
I don’t think I know what you are talking about head spacing in the 853. I have made a small round delrin pellet so to speak that sits inside the valve spring in the compression chamber of the 853 to decrease the volume of space in the chamber for the piston to compress air into and it helps a good bit.
But tell me or direct me to the link for setting the head space in the 853, 953 series of guns. Tell me or send me the headspace trick either here or to my email whichever is easier for you.
Yep got the email on the 600 and am watching it but don’t have the money for it right now, but maybe it won’t sell until I can get the money.
I’ll try to dig that mod up and post it here asap.
It’s a simple mod where you scuff up the dished out piston and fill it in with 2 part epoxy, I’ll let ya know what mine’s doing tomorrow when I can chrony it, but it’s supposed to be good for about 80-100 fps. I’ve considered building a custom piston for mine but I’ve also heard about a mod that lets you turn it into a multi pump also, that I’m most interested in.
Yea I know what you mean now although mine is pretty flat and does not have a dished area in the center of the piston. I have put mine together without the seals and left the lever arm pin out to see how much space there was between the piston head and the valve face and it was less than .040 inches so instead of trying to sand and epoxy the piston head to take up the space I did what I told you in the last post by using an RC car body mount delrin bolt that was just the right diameter to fit inside the valve spring and than measured the distance between the head of the valve and the metal spring retainer with the valve stem flush with the hammer side of the valve, then cut the delrin body mount bolt about .020 inches shorter than the distance between the valve head and the retainer and put it inside the spring when assembling the valve. It decrease’s the volume of air available to push the pellet but increase’s the pressure in the chamber so there is some trade off. I also take the pump lever spring latch plastic piece and if you look where the tab of it sticks into the hammer groove where the hammer hits it to cushion the hammer against the valve stem like an anti bounce o-ring would do in a PCP. grind or cut it down till it no longer prevents the hammer from fully opening the valve when you pull the trigger it will increase the fps also as well as the fpe.
That sounds like an awesome project for tomorrow! it seems like I recall noticing something like that and was wondering what to do with it. Help me remember to get it chronied early.
Will do I will email you early in the AM to remind you, Which mod are you talking about the plastic pellet to take up the space inside the spring or removing the hammer bumper off the pump lever retainer latch or both.
Do you know about the trigger mod to make it adjustable and have a much lighter pull also.
This mod makes the trigger into a match grade adjustable trigger and is what all the rifles at the CMP range here in town have had there triggers modified to and it makes them very crisp.
Just now saw this, it’s driving me nuts that this extra spring goes in there somewhere.I’ll be back in it before long.
This link should send you there if I can do it right;http://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/topic59268.html
My 853 does not have that cavity in the head of the piston like the 953 in the link you gave me. Mine is perfectly flat and if yours has that cavity then I would definitely fill it in with jb weld.
Then just do the other mods I told you about and the trigger mod I sent you the link to also.
Check your email as I sent you a more detailed instructions on modifying the trigger on the your 953 and it has some good pics also. I could not get it to link in here so I just sent you it at you email and explained the trick on removing the portion of the pump arm retainer tab that acts as a hammer bounce device and also limits the amount the hammer opens the valve. It is on page 28 circled in yellow.
If you have any questions just shoot me an email. It should give you another 100 fps, I have not done the trigger mod or the pump handle latch mod to mine yet so that’s is why its only in the 500 fps range, when I complete those mods it will be up in the low 600s I believe and so will yours.
I’m working on the hammer bumper right now,I’m assuming the hammer needs to completely clear it?
You want to take just enough off so that the hammer does not hit it but leave enough that it is still is captured in the space for the latch to slide in,
Good deal. Glad you got the springs.
I have been using the tray in the Hatsan today. Working nice.
Yea I am looking forward to tomorrow so I can get my three guns sighted in and get some good use out of the tray with the metal and poly mags, and the 15,89 JSBs.
Getting ready to finish up the 22 cal 2240 now so talk to later tonight.
I got to fit the new spring in the 2240 gun and it will cock but it is still way to stiff for my liking. it takes every bit of strength and propping my thumb against the adjuster cap just to get it to cock.
The Prod end car has two sets of threads in it for the adjustment screw and the screw is 3/8x 24 threads and fit on the inside of the cap and then there are 5/16 x24 threads on the outer end of cap I assume to be able to put the RAI tactical stock adapter or some crosman stock adapter on the end of the cap. So I am thinking of drilling out the 5/16×24 threads to be able to thread the complete length of the cap in 3/8×24 to allow the adjuster screw to be backed off another 3/8 of an inch to lessen some of the spring tension and allow for more adjustment distance.
I will be using the 1399 stock ant way because the tactical stock does not allow me to place head low enough foer a good lione of sigjht
I got to fit the new spring in the 2240 gun and it will cock but it is still way to stiff for my liking. it takes every bit of strength and propping my thumb against the adjuster cap just to get it to cock. I still feel like it will break the cocking arm off in the bolt and it is causing the bolt to bind and wear on the right side of it.
The Prod end car has two sets of threads in it and the screw for the spring is 3/8x 24 threads and fits on the inside of the cap and then there are 5/16 x24 threads on the outer end of cap I assume to be able to put the RAI tactical stock adapter or some crosman stock adapter on the end of the cap. So I am thinking of drilling out the 5/16×24 threads to be able to thread the complete length of the cap in 3/8×24 to allow the adjuster screw to be backed off another 3/8 of an inch to lessen some of the spring tension and allow for more adjustment distance.
I will be using the 1399 stock any way because the tactical stock does not allow me to place my head low enough for a good line of sight for the scope.
If you know why the cap has two threads in the end of it and if by drilling and tapping it to 3/8×24 the complete length would cause any issue I am not seeing please let et know.
The bigger thread is for what Crosman calls the degassing tool. It screws in that bigger thread (3/8×24) and has a probe that pushes on the striker to make the striker hit the valve stem. On the discovery it was used to evacuate all the Co2 or HPA out of the reservoir to go back and forth between the 2 fuel types.
First I have to ask if you got this with the end cap.
Part #1700-011, item #25, hammer spring guide
That is what the spring is placed on. Then sets inside the striker. The spring will have to be shorter than the factory 2240 spring for it to work with the Prod end cap and that adjuster that I just gave you the part number for.
I will tell you how I get the spring length right. Screw that adjuster all the way in clockwise till it has only a few threads holding it in. Cock the gun with the end cap out. Put the spring in then the end cap. Push the end cap in and make sure you don’t have coil bind (coil to coil should not be contacting each other with the spring compressed). The cap should sit in its normal position. If its sticking out you have to cut a coil off till it sits right (flush to the main tube). That will give you the correct spring length. And maximum power with that spring. If you want to turn the power down then you back the adjuster out.
If you didn’t get that spring guide then you can do the same thing I said above. Just make sure the gun is cocked then set the spring for maximum compression but with out coil bind.
You can still get a decent feet per second with the factory 2240 spring if you want to try it. Also I have had good luck with a 10 pound spring. You just got to make sure you set it up so you dont get coil bind at maximum spring compression.
I don’t know what pound factory spring Crosman uses in the gun but I’m guessing maybe 6-8 pounds. And remember the heavier spring you use the more vibration and bump the gun will get when you pull the trigger. So that’s something to keep in mind on the accuracy part of the spring pressure also.
And instead of guessing about that spring that came with the hi-pack kit maybe we should email him on his website and ask him exactly what that spring is for. To me its way to heavy. The one that I got in my kit is to me anyway compared to the factory striker spring. Who knows. That’s beside the point now. But I think if you get the right pound spring and get it set right you will be good to go. I think the factory spring would even work good and make a nice balance of power and keep the gun shooting smooth.
Remember if you cant hit what your shooting at power means nothing. But I hope that helped and let me know what you come up with.
First off I did not make it to the range today, the wife and grand kids talked me into taking them skating last night and it was late when we got home and I did not sleep good. I just got up about an hour ago, I am going to go this week during the day when I can be there by myself and be able to concentrate without any distractions,
On to the 2240 spring issue. I did get the spring guide that goes with the cap and now I understand what the two different threads are for because the guide is hollow for the degassing rod to fit thru and that makes sense.
On the spring fitment, with the guide threaded all the way counterclockwise in the cap ( least spring tension) with the hammer in the uncocked position the cap is about 1/4 inch out from being in the seated position with either the stock spring or the heavier spring from ebay (not as heavy as the black hi-pac spring) and the distance or length of the two springs are the same just one has bigger diameter wire and therefore is stiffer. I don’t see how you say to get the right spring length will work. If the hammer is in the cocked position ( all the way to the rear and held by trigger sear) and you set adjuster at it tightest position and cut coils off till the cap will sit flush in the tube , then there will be no tension on spring when cocked. I think you mean to have hammer in its uncocked position meaning resting on the valve stem, then insert spring and cut coils until the cap sit flush. ( or maybe your cocked/uncocked positions are backwards from mine or vice a versa) To me cocked is when the sear is holding the hammer off the valve stem and uncocked is when the hammer is resting on the valve stem.
In any event I am not worried about being able to degass the gun as I can just shoot it down, and instead of cutting the spring I am just going to drill the cap so that the guide will have it full length of the cap to be used to adjust the spring tension and then with the spring guide set at the most rearward setting ( being flush with the rear end of the cap) the cap should fit flush to the tube without any spring pressure on the hammer in the uncocked position with hammer resting on the valve stem.
With the spring from ebay now installed with no air pressure in cylinder it hold the valve open so it is definitely set with to much tension with the guide fully counterclockwise and by drilling and threading the cap the full length in the 3/8×24 thread of the guide it will give me another 3/8 inch of spring adjustement and keep valve closed with no air in cylinder. Does that make sense to you.
I agree about calling hi-pac to see what the black spring rating is and I believe the spring from ebay is around 10 pounds. I know with it put in with the guide all the way in the counterclockwise the tension on the trigger sear is enough to make the trigger very heavy like about 7 or 8 pounds so it needs the tension lowered for sure.
I do know that if you can’t hit what you are aiming at all the power in the world is no good.
Give me your thoughts, I have to go now with the wife and g-kids out to the store and will check back later with you.
It’s back together! I sure do wish I could get this left hand to help out! Was it worth it?It’s still a single stage trigger but I’m gonna play with the adjustment to see what it feels like with a little play and try to use the trigger return spring for a first stage.It is much smoother throughout it’s pull range, I polished everything with the Dremel and some disc repair grit.I pumped and cocked it and screwed the adjustment screw in til it popped off then backed it out 1/4 turn and it’s right there although still fairly heavy.I was looking for the extra power.The trigger wasn’t bothersome to me but I think it has room for improvement and this is one option.
For someone with a proper workbench(vise clean, wide open table top handtools,a drill and a Dremel)and 2 whole hands to work with it should probably take 2-3 hours depending on the level of craftsmanship you’re willing to devote to it. for me it’s all about the Chrony results which I’ll post tomorrow for before and after comparison.I wouldn’t do it again with less than 2 hands.Just too much stuff to hold together while reassembling, it also helps if your brain is ready for it.
Sorry I have not got back to you sooner I have been out with the wife and g=-kids under order to spend some time with them.
The trigger mod does not make it a true two stage trigger but it does allow you to adjust where the trigger breaks and the distance it moves before it breaks, the pull weight should not have gotten heavier but rather lighter because you can adjust out most of the un needed travel. unless you got the wrong spring in between the trigger and bolt retainer. If you cocked it and turned in the screw till the sear released then back it off 1/4 turn it should be about right.
My 853 does not have the advance mechanism so I am unsure about it or how it works. the link I sent to, your email is pretty with good pics so you should be able to determine where that spring you got left over goes. It is very difficult for me with two good hands to get the receiver with the hammer spring and trigger spring and safety spring all needing held in place at the same time and then having to put the two halves of the receiver together is a real pain. Just look over the pics in the link I sent you and see if you can determine where the spring you have left looks like where it goes.
I am up and on the pc now so send me a post or email and I will see if I can tell you where it goes.
There are 2 more links on the site, one for complete disassembly and one for just a reseal.I have saved all 3,just in case. The complete disassembly one is what helped me with the advance mechanism.It didn’t raise trigger pull weight but really didn’t lower it either That’s gonna be one of the springs, I’m guessing sear spring but it could also be the one between the trigger and bolt block.I don’t worry about it being too light for me but other people shoot my guns too (some have minimal experience judging from the number of holes in my shed)fortunately Adyn has a big jump on a lotta my friends!
So, are you outta the dawghaus yet or still payin’ dues?
Yep out of the doghouse now, I really wasn’t in it just had to spend some time with them to stay out of it. But I can go back to plating now, Happy Happy
You know what they sat if momma ain’t happy nobody is happy/
After we talked on the phone today I know what you were thinking about with the coil bind and the adjuster all the way in with the gun in the cocked position.
You said there would be no tension on the spring at that time. That’s not true. The spring would be compressed to the point of the coils touching each other. That way when you put the end cap flush to the tube the spring length would be correct.
If you pull the trigger the gun will fire because the spring is compressed. If you back the spring adjuster all the way out counter clockwise and cock the gun it will still fire. You just did not compress the spring as much.
That is the correct way to set the spring. And if you get the spring to long the gun will not cock at that point and you will have coil bind. In other words the coils will be touching each other.
I still think that what you are saying on how to adjust the spring is with the hammer in the uncocked position and then if you cut the coils it would compress some when cocked, but if you cut the coils with the hammer in the rear cocked position and the adjuster at the foreword highest tension position when the hammer is uncocked the spring would be loose and rattle in the hammer and guide.
I am going to drill the cap out so that the spring guide will adjust the full length of the cap and if it is still to hard to cock I will look at cutting some of the spring off. but I don’t think it will be necessary.
If the spring was too long now in the lowest tension position and it was coil binding I could not get it to cock at all and it does cock to where the sear engages the hammer, and that is with either the stock end cap or the Prod adjustable one. with the spring installed in either the stock end cap or the prod one with the adjuster at the most counterclockwise position the spring protrudes from the caps the same distance so if I did adjust the spring guide in a clockwise direction I would encounter coil bind for sure.
I would much prefer to work on any crosman especially the 2240 CO2 series or the 2289 pumper series over any daisy because the 853 you need four hands to hold all the springs and parts in place to get the receiver halves together.
I will let you know tomorrow how drilling the cap works out on the cocking effort and I would rather do that before cutting the spring as cutting the spring is the last resort in my way of thinking.
Once coil bind is encountered the spring will have to be cut in order for a more compact compression.I don’t cut springs until I have that problem or it seems to be the last option.I heat mine while under compression to save the metal(just in case).Then if it’s too short, all that’s needed are 2 strong hands.
I agree that cutting the spring is my last option and in the case of my 2240 I can drill and thread the end cap to give me 3/8 to 1/2 inch of more adjustment to lessen the tension on the spring before cutting is a option and I can still degass the gun with a small rod and a hammer. But my form of degassing is to just shoot it down,
I guess your out at the range. Just wondering if you got to mess with the spring any more. Let me know.
The advance mech. popped out on me, so I had to figure it out and now I have an extra spring left over after I got it back together. My back’s screamin’ at me,I think I made up a few new cuss words today,I’m gonna have to get my head outta it for a while. Maybe I’ll get back on it later tonight.Did you figure out how to get that pionier apart?
Did you forget the spring that goes Inside the pump arm latch to keep it closed or the one that goes between the trigger and the bolt retaining arm.
Send a pic if you can and I will see if I can tell you where it goes.
Yea I got the pioneer apart and found that it has a rubber seal on the piston and the edges of it are torn and cut, it is 7/8 in diameter so I went to a auto part store and got a 7/8″ wheel cylinder kit to use to cup seal for the piston I just have to put a hole in the center for the hold down screw and clean it up , polish the compression chamber with a brake hone to remove the burs on the holes in the tube and put the chamber back together with a few shims to give it more spring tension and hopefully some more power. Then I have to check the barrel to see if it is bent or if the base block to receiver fork fit is worn. I will get back on it tomorrow.
Let me know if you figure out where the spring goes or send me a pic to my email and I will try to tell you where it goes.
Which gun would you rather work on? The 2240 guns or the 953.
I did me up a little 953 a while back and had it shooting more than 500 fps. And I definitely had to work on the trigger. It was way to heavy for my liking. But the biggest gain I got was with drilling out the transfer port and then of course I had to put a bigger plug in it. The original plug wouldn’t fit anymore. Then I put a heavier spring in that little plunger that seals the air in the compression chamber. I will put it this way it raised my POI about a inch and a half. So the mods picked it up some kind of way.
The head space mod raised my poi over an inch but I didn’t get the chrony until about 3-4 days before I went away. Just enough time to get everything chronied once.I’m gonna try to get mine up to or over 6 fpe so in case something bigger than a grackle pops out at me I’ll feel that I have enough power to take it down up close.
Air guns and cars. Always seems there is something to do to them to make them better. I know you know what I mean. 🙂
if you get all the mods for the piston and pellet inside the valve spring along with the trigger it should be up close to 600 fps which should be enough for squirrel.
Glad you found the spring and got it put in for the advance mechanism, my 853 does hot have the advance as it is not a C model. Glad it is all together and sound like you got the trigger set right because you did make sure it would not slam fire by it self it if it is hit to hard like dropping it or it being bumped by accident.
I bet you will be surprised by the difference in fps and accuracy because the trigger is easier and more crisp in its release.
I know you won’t want to hear this but me and Gunfun talked on the phone today and he had a 953 that he modded also and he told me about removing the silver plug at the top of the transfer port in the top of the potmetal part of the barrel to valve area and then he drilled out the transfer port a little bigger ( he did not say how big ) and then got a bigger plug to block the port back off and he said it made a big difference in the power and fps.
let me know some numbers tomorrow
I’ll be talkin’ to ya tomorrow about all that. I just got back from the corner store an seeing double right now.
That mag advance mechanism is what was causin’ most of the gritty feel during cocking,it’s a Dirt Devil and gravity takes over from there! I’m betting that’s part of the reason it’s not on the Pro models but it’s nice & smooth now! Maybe a few thous thinner but smoooth. Cocking it was a challenge for Adyn. After he got done with it one day I took over to see if anything really needed to be done. My fingertip slipped and Ahem, Messed up and almost took off my fingernail.I could never find enough info to be confident in taking it apart, cleaning, lubing an reinstalling it without a proper schematic. It’s done now and a whole lots better!
I’ll be looking into that transfer port next.It’s one of my standard mods on anything (except my 392 so far)I go through that could use more power.
The transfer port tip was told to me by Gunfun and I have not done it on a daisy yet.
Once I get my 2240 projects done and go back and fix my 60C so all my guns are in working order I will take my 853 apart and do the trigger mod and the pump latch mod, then the transfer port. and I will chrony it before and after to see what gains the mods made and let you know .It may be a couple weeks as my 22 cal 2240 just blew the valve seal from hi-pac when I got to 2500 psi so now it has to come back apart to replace the seal with a hard fiber seal so it won’t blow again. then I am doing a guest review on the IMC pioneer 3 for BB. Then finish my 853 barrel for the other 2240 build and then fix the 60C then finally get to the 853.
I will be busy for the next two to three weeks.
I was hoping you’d take B.B. up on that,It’s a perfect opportunity! I was wanting a springer to go with all my pumpers and always liked the underlever’s styling which is why I liked the QB-36 followed by sidelever but they’re heavy which didn’t used to be a real issue. After I get my 2240 project on wheels I’ll be watching for an inexpensive and lightweight breakbarrel capable of being modded to 10+fpe. Your Pionier sounds like it may be in this league and can be very inexpensive. What kinda trigger you got to work with? Does the cocking linkage and beartrap mech look like it could handle one of the qf-2 springs? I take it the original spring in it won’t cut it for that kinda power but does the rest of the gun look robust enough for heavier duty? And once again what does it have for a trigger/sear and what can be done with it?
Good luck with it!
The IMC pioneer 3 is a very small youth size break barrel gun and the QB-36/B3 spring would not even come close to fitting in this gun. The spring in it is like half the size and length of the one I sent you, I think if I can get 500 fps I will be lucky with it. I wish now I would have chronyed it before I tore it down so I would know how much of an improvement I will make if any, but I didn’t so all we will have is the after results.
If I get 5 fpe it will be good because in the review that BB did on this gun back in 09 he stated it would shoot in the high 300 to very low 400fps, but his gun was a 1979 model with a leather seal and mine is a 1986 model with a rubber seal so we will have to wait and see what it does when I get done with it.
First I am going to get my 22 cal 2240 working at 3k before I start on the pioneer 3 build and review so you are going to have to wait for any more info on the pioneer for my review.
Do you want my broken spring so you can cut it down? If so let me know so I can get it ready for shipping after the 3rd.
buldawg and Reb
The important thing on the striker spring is that you can still cock the gun and not have the spring bound up tight at maximum spring compression. So which ever way you achieve it that’s good.
And I cant remember what size I drilled out that transfer port on the 953 I had. I do remember that the drill was around .030” bigger if that helps. Then remember you have to make a new plug that is a bigger diameter. I put two drops of super glue on my plug to make sure it held in.
Go to the bottom
What did you use for a plug? I’d hate to have it pop out! If you were pointing it down when it did, it could be a money shot right in the jewels!
The spring in the 36 and B3s is way to big, its twice the diameter of the one in the pioneer and even if it was cut to the right length its to big in dia.
But thanks anyway because if it would fit I would use it.
I’m pretty sure it’s the one for the mag advance.I was trying to screwdriver it in, because my left went on strike again and it went into orbit.I did find some really good step by step tutorials, including complete disassembly. Probably the same guy that posted the one you shared with me. I’ll get back on it tomorrow.I almost sent you another 600 listing. This one’s in the box for $136. There was also a co2 Avanti for $150.
I saw the one for 136 and am watching it but no way do I have the money for it right now and really don’t have i for the 60 buck one but am going to watch them and see if the price drops if they don’t sell the first time.
Oh,I got it!I put stuff all over this blog about it. Check it out when you get the chance.
Taking a little break on the 953, it’s down to putting it back in the stock. First impression is the trigger feels much smoother with no gritty feeling or binding, mind you I only let the air out from installing the piston. It looks like I’ll have to borrow a sight from something else so I can actually shoot it for accuracy comparison, It does well with my Tasco 4×32 but it’s fixed parallax and no dots and it’s on my Airmaster.
Thanks again Buldawg! for that Pilkington trigger modification.I’m actually Very pleased with the feel of the trigger now that I’ve played with the adjustment and backed it off a little for a little bit safer cocking stroke(with the adjustment screw behind the trigger guard and at the top of the pistol grip your hand tends to ride up and press on the screw so make sure your threads are solid(I used one of Crosman’s self tapping ones with the oddball threads intended for use in plastics) it WILL slamfire everytime when not properly adjusted! It got too cloudy for chronographing so I’ll do that tomorrow after I decide which scope to steal tonight.
I left you a post over in the Dan Wesson blog, but I got the spring issue fixed, but now I have to fix the seal between the valve and hi-pac to hold 3k psi.
On the 853 I would just have to get the plug out and see how much could be drilled out without weakening the valve assy because it is just cheap potmetal and is not real strong to start with.
That is weeks down the road because my 2240 is coming all back apart to fix the valve seal.
That’s the best way on that transfer port because I don’t really remember the exact size.
And Reb asked above what I used to plug the hole. And the pot metal was a concern. So I used nylon and made it a nice slip fit. I was going to make it a press fit but didn’t want to take a chance in cracking the metal. So that’s why I used a few drops of super glue on the plug when I put it in.
My buddy has the gun I did those mods to now. I guess the gun is somewhere around 6 or so months old and no issues yet. And as I say Time Will Tell.
And yes I read that over there about your 2240 and left you a comment there.
And about the Hatsan. It is shooting one hole groups everytime now after floating the barrel.
And one more thing I posted this also over there. I found something interesting about my new buddy bottle that I just got. Its just like my one that I have had for several years now. Read it over on the Dan Wesson blog.
And yep two bottles now so I continuously shoot all day if I want with no down time. When the one bottle does its 8 or so fills on the guns it goes into get filled on the Shoebox while I’m still shooting. Then when I’m done for the day I go in and top off that bottle and ready for the next day of shooting.
Oh yea it made it up to 99 yesterday and the heat index was a 107. The Midwest is bad for high humidity. It felt like when you were walking outside that the heat was wrapping around your body as you walked. It was definitely hot yesterday and I’m glad I wasn’t at work with all them hot machines running. Oh and no wind blowing at all. And its suppose to be a repeat today. And I’m going out to shoot right now. 🙂
I only Chronied one pellet in the 953 this time, 7.4 Crosman wadcutters are down to 418. Looks like I’ll be going back in to see what’s up. I couldn’t find the list that I made but I recall them being in the 430’s so I’m still losing power which hasn’t yet been addressed. Looks like I’ll be leading the way on this one via Gunfun’s previous project. I probably won’t get started for a couple days to allow for some playtime but I’ll let Ya’ll know when I go in.I’m pretty sure I’ve got the o-rings handy, I just hope the exhaust valve’s in good shape so I don’t have to order one.
Something is still not right in that 953 for sure because stock it should be shooting in the 500 fps range with ease. you can get a rebuild kit from daisy for about 20 bucks and it gives you all the valve parts, new hammer spring, trigger and bolt retainer, sear and a few other pieces way more than you would think you would need or get in a rebuild kit.
When you take it apart look real close at the pot metal casting for the valve and barrel especially around where the barrel fits into the pot metal and the transfer port areas because that is where I found the crack in the one I built that I have the barrel for my 2240 conversion from and it was shooting in the high 300s to low 400s fps range like yours. if yours has the barrel weight/sight on the front of the barrel take it off before you take the action out of the stock because it is heavy enough that it acts like a pendulum on the end of the barrel and will cause the pot metal valve and barrel assy to crack while you are working on it. You cannot buy just the pot metal piece, it comes as a barrel and complete valve assy with all the internal valve parts for 65 bucks and that is why I have that LW barrel.
If there is no crack in the pot metal you may need a valve kit.