by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- From Yogi
- From Will S.
- History
- El Gamo 300
- Collectable Gamos?
- Beeman Precision Airguns
- Gamo 126 10-meter target rifle
- El Gamo triggers
- HOWEVER
- What about the interim rifles?
- So — what’s the verdict?
- Summary
Today I am writing about Gamo. Here is how it came about. On Tuesday we received these comments to my post about the Gamo Swarm Fusion 10X Gen2 repeater.
From Yogi
B.B.
“Well, Gamo knows how to make airguns and I’m rooting for this one to deliver on all that it promises.”
My only experience with Gamo was a piece of junk, and the pellets re not much better. What is the greatest Gamo of all time?
Maybe a Friday blog about it?
What is the best gun they have ever made? Anything worth collecting?
From Will S.
Morning B.B.,
On some rifles, not all, Gamo uses an all-polymer breech block and the pivot bolt is GLUED IN so you can’t adjust it when the barrel has side-to-side wobble. If you can’t adjust such an important part of the rifle, then the rifle will permanently lose its accuracy and will no longer be interesting to use. No more Gamo springers with polymer in place of steel for me.
There were lots of other comments, but they were either about specific Gamo rifles or about the two major complaints people have about Gamo these days — lousy triggers and too much plastic.
I have to agree with most of what these comments say. But since I have been doing this a little longer than some of you I remember when things were different. That’s what I want to talk about today.
History
In 1889 a company called Antonio Casas, SA was making mostly lead products in Barcelona, Spain. In 1950 that company began specializing in the production of lead pellets. In 1959 they formed a new company known as Industrias El Gamo, and in 1961 they began to produce airguns. They started selling in Spain but soon opened up to the rest of the world.
That is the official company history in edited form, however in the 12th edition of the Blue Book of Airguns, an Antinio Casas BB gun from 1930 is shown on page 485. So there was an airgun connection before 1959.
When I came on the airgun scene as a writer in the ’90s, the company was called Gamo and was managed by CEO Juan Carlos Casas. So, in all that time the company was owned and operated by the same family.
El Gamo air rifles were imported into the US in the 1970s and two companies stood out as their principal retailers. The first was Air Rifle Headquarters that began business around the same time El Gamo was entering the world market. My oldest catalog from them is from 1973, which is about in the middle of the ARH lifespan, if not closer to the end. They have two El Gamo models in the catalog — the Expo and the 300 — that I would now like to address.
The Expo was a simplistic breakbarrel somewhat along the lines of a Beeman R7, but with far less precision and features. Nevertheless, for its day it was a standout in the US. In 1963 I owned a Slavia (probably a 236) that was its equivalent, but Slavia never took hold here in the US, while Gamo USA became a US company.
The Expo was a basic breakbarrel, but it was also the foundation of the Expomatic — El Gamo’s early foray into repeating breakbarrel spring-piston air rifles. I’ve never owned or even handled an Expomatic, so everything I know about it is second- and third-hand. I heard and read that they were very pellet picky — not for accuracy, but for whether they would feed though the tubular magazine. I heard that so often that I stayed away from them. That’s why the rifle I’m now testing — the Swarm Fusion 10X, and the Swarm Maxxim I tested two years ago are such marvels to me — because they work!
El Gamo 300
The El Gamo 300, however, is an air rifle I have owned and tested for you. After testing it I later sold it to a blog reader at the Malvern, Arkansas, airgun show several years ago. Like me, he was delighted to get it.
The 300 is a stout little breakbarrel with an adjustable trigger and decent accuracy. I had wanted one ever since I read the 1979 ARH catalog, but life had its ways of keeping me celibate for a couple more decades. I finally got this one at the Toys That Shoot airgun show in Findlay, Ohio. And I finally got to scratch a 20-year-old itch!
But what made me want it even more was another El Gamo I got and still have — the El Gamo 68/68-XP. I tested one in .177 caliber for you and I even tuned it. Then, in 2017, I bought a .22-caliber rifle that was very similar, but different in some small ways. That one was a very accurate rifle! And I sold that .22 at the Texas Airgun Show for exactly what I paid for it. Someone else is having the fun with that one!
Collectable Gamos?
Yogi — this 68XP is a very desirable El Gamo. It isn’t that expensive, yet just try to find one! The 300 is another one to look for. And even an Expo would be nice to have.
Beeman Precision Airguns
I have a black and white Beeman catalog that came out in 1974, and both the El Gamo Expo and 300 are listed. I have read where people said Beeman never carried El Gamo air rifles, but they did in the very beginning. And, when ARH went out of business in 1980/81, Beeman bought up some of the inventory — or maybe all of it — and sold off the last of the El Gamos. So Beeman was a player, too and because my Beeman catalog is only a year newer than my earliest ARH catalog, I can’t really say who carried El Gamo first. Both companies represented the El Gamo brand as a low-cost entry into adult airguns, which it was.
Gamo 126 10-meter target rifle
Then there was the Gamo 126 single stroke pneumatic target rifle. Daisy sold them for a while (1984-1994), just as they did FWB 300s. They are not as refined as a Walther LGR, but they do work fine and are quite accurate. They typically sell for a little less than FWB 300s , but still command a fair price. Expect to pay north of $400 for one that works.
El Gamo triggers
Okay — here comes the part that prompted me to write this whole report. Many comments in the report I cite above talked about Gamo’s poor trigger! Well here is new for you. Ford automobiles don’t accelerate worth a darn! At least not the model T Fords I have seen. Get it? You can’t just cut out a segment of a company’s past and claim it is representative. Yes, the Gamo triggers that were in rifles made between about 1990 and 200? (the 220/440/880/etc.) did suck — big time. They had a long, heavy inconsistent pull with a surprise release at the end. But that 15-year period of production does NOT include all Gamos!
Then, the Chinese COPIED those poor triggers (probably prompted by buyers who knew nothing about buying airguns but price) and started putting them into airguns that had American names on the outside and the ship hit the sand!
Was Gamo even aware this was happening? Probably. And they were also in the process of being purchased (2007) by a private equity group (MCH) whose knowledge of airguns I do not know. All I know is that after that purchase the Gamo booth at SHOT was filled with real motorcycles on stands like they were doing wheelies! At the SHOT Show! Where was Alice and the white rabbit?
HOWEVER
The triggers in the older El Gamo rifles were not that bad. When they were new they were heavy and creepy. Creep is an uneven starting and stopping as the trigger blade is pulled.
As these rifle wore in the creep went away and the trigger pull became much lighter. I have shot well-used Gamo rifles with triggers that were probably 2.5 lbs and smooth as silk. Yes, the trigger blade did move, but that is common with single-stage triggers.
What about the interim rifles?
The triggers on the rifles made in the bad period (1990-200?) also wore in if given the chance. But many shooters opted to change or modify them, so all the talk is about what needs to be done to one — not how to let it break in with 4,000 shots.
Towards the end of the first decade of this millennium Gamo started paying real attention to their triggers, their gas pistons, their shot cycle impulse — in short, to all the things that make an air rifle good. However at this same time they were also producing thinner steel barrels encased in plastic, and that put off a lot of buyers. But not me. I liked them — a LOT. Maybe you don’t remember my report series on Testing the Gamo Whisper – Part 8 Gas spring accuracy. That was the Whisper that Pyramyd AIR modified with a gas spring — in 2007 — before Gamo started doing it!
The first 5 sections of the report are on a straight Gamo Whisper with a coiled steel mainspring. I even installed a Charlie da Tuna trigger so you could see how that worked. Then I tested the gas spring modification. Read it and weep, because Gamo was shooting 5-shot groups of less than four-tenths of an inch at 25 yards! Don’t tell me a Gamo can’t shoot!
So — what’s the verdict?
I actually wrote the finale to this report in January of 2006. Read that report here. I said at the end of that report that Gamo was closing the gap with Weihrauch. And they are closer today than they were then. Are they even with Weihrauch yet? In my opinion they are not yet even. But their triggers are better than ever, they don’t vibrate when they shoot, they are accurate and they are very light for the power they have. In my opinion, Gamo has earned its spot in the limelight. And these new repeaters are something with which they may well be the leader.
Summary
This report is choppy and leaves out a lot of data because Gamo is a huge company with lots of products to its credit. I feel like I just skimmed the surface today. But I don’t see a followup report, because the bulk of the guns I skipped over are the more modern models that differ in small details only.
Good morning B.B. I think that you still owe the test of a Gamo magnum (repeater?) against the pcp 30fpe equivalents. Thanks
Bill
Bill,
Why? Isn’t comparing any magnum springer to a similar powered pcp, though interesting, really a apples to oranges comparison? – Don
Besides B.B.’s promise, and personal choices, for me it’s more about testing effort/cost of equipment to get the same results, if it is possible. To explain myself; How does the cost of a basic 30fpe pcp gun/pump combo compares to a Gamo magnum? And what is the effort required for each shot, taking pumps to fill the tank into account? Accuracy must be also in the equation.
Bill
Bill,
Thanks for the explanation. Now I get it. – Don
Bill,
Sure, you can compare anything,… if you want to. If you hand pump, there will be more effort per shot. For me, I would not be willing to put forth that effort. I went the Shoebox pump and CF bottle route.
Yup,…. more cost per shot,… with less effort.
There is lots of choices in both camps. PCP’s are easier to shoot well with being less hold fussy.
For me,… my time to shoot is limited and I wanted to shoot well,… when I could shoot. I was willing to pay the price of admission. I will add too,…. the more power a springer has, the harder it will be to do well with. With PCP’s,… power is nearly unlimited by comparison and still easy to shoot well.
Compare all you want, however you want,….. but in my book there really is no comparison.
My 2 cents on your comment,…….. Chris
Chris USA,
I certainly agree with you that not much will be gained from a comparison of power plants with caliber as the determinant. It might be almost okay to compare like kinetic energy guns but that puts a artificial handicap on the PCP (just as limiting the fill source to a hand pump) that is not a fair or worthwhile comparison.
As most times, I will point out any argument falacy, to wit:
“With PCP’s,… power is nearly unlimited by comparison and still easy to shoot well.”
PCP Power is in fact nearly unlimited, so far so good, but unfortunately shooting a 500+ grain slug at near transsonic velocity brings in a recoil factor that most airgun only and many firearm shooters have not experienced. As in most cases recoil sensitivity is both real and varied but almost always makes good repeatability without great shooter discipline difficult.
shootski
Shootski,
Any good advice,.. and correction,.. is always welcome.
As far as 500+ grain,…. I see the highest grain for a .50 cal. air rifle is 177 grain on the PA site. Yes,… anything that could launch a 500+ gran projectile would be packing a bit of “thump” to the shoulder region. Having a bit of a bum left shoulder (I shoot left),… I likely will not be finding out about 500+ grain shooting any time soon. I would be very hesitant to even shoot a shouldered 12 ga. magnum shotgun load.
Chris
In my case, if I were to dip into the world of PCP air rifles, I would want one that I could refill using a hand pump. Cheaper, simpler, etc. But then, I like cars where I roll my windows up and down by hand.
Birdmove,
My wife and I drive manual transmission vehicles only. For years we had manual mirrors, seats, windows Sunroofs, baggage/spare tire compartment lids, and engine compartment hatches. We even had a rope/chain with “T” handle to pull start (in an emergency) our Karmann Ghias and Porsches!
We also currently own two hpa hand pumps and a brace of SCUBA and CF cylinders. Fortunately we have very cheap fills so we only exercise the handpumps to make certain they are in an up status. What could be more simple than taking a hose with QD fitting and slipping it on a male Foster and turning a valve? Now that the CF tanks will go beyond 15 years to at least 30 years and very likely to indefinite service life with regular hydro/visual inspection cycle the cost of ownership, I predict, for the CF cylinder will prove to have a cheaper cubic foot Life Cycle Cost than hpa hand pumps and compressors! Given that you go thru say, an average 800+ cubic feet of air a month.
Easy to do 1,000/week with .25 caliber and above airguns and way too simple when you get to .45 caliber and larger delivering hundreds of FPE of throw power!
Yes PCPs and support gear looks to cost a lot at the Step-in but gets much cheaper as you add more guns. It does take some logical decisions early so you don’t get caught on the upgrade escalator. If you can get fills relatively cheap then buy two OR MORE (NEW!!!!!) 100 cubic foot carbon fiber cylinders and a simple Cascade manifold. When you divide the initial and fill cost by 10,950 it comes out to Pennies/day!
shootski
Birdmove,
When I “dipped” into the world of PCP air rifles, I started with a Talon SS, an Edge and a used AirForce hand pump. They were both easy to fill with an hand pump. The SS would give me 50+ shots at a 1800 PSI fill and the Edge would give me 100+ shots at a 3000 PSI fill. When the AirForce pump finally gave up the ghost, I bought an Hill pump which I still have.
You might want to take a serious look at the Discovery / Maximus platform. They have a fill pressure of 2000 PSI which is easy to accomplish with an hand pump. The Marauder can also be adjusted to operate at 2000 PSI or with a little more effort you can run it at 3000 PSI. There are now a plethora of PPPCPs available, most of which would be relatively easy to fill with an hand pump.
It was not until I made the jump to big bore that I set aside the hand pump. Lloyd’s Benjamin Rogue taught me that it is no fun filling such for a half hour on a summer afternoon for so few shots.
The Dark Side is calling you. Come, come. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Would not mind a Maximus, or QB Chief, and a pump.
Birdmove,
Either would be a good choice to start with. I might go for the Maximus as I am more familiar with the various Discovery/Maximus mods and upgrades that are available. The truth is I am seriously considering a Maximus. Now Stephen Archer would likely say go with the Chief as it is based on the QB78.
RR,
Why not the Fortitude? You would at least have multi-shot capabilities with that,… assuming that the magazine caused no off-shot issues.
Chris
Chris,
I do not think a Fortitude would be a good choice as a first PCP. There is much to learn about them before you add the additional variable of multi shot. Also as you point out, magazines can cause issues all their own. K.I.S.S.
I have always been the one to jump in with both feet and had a steep learning curve to overcome. When I started with sport kites I very quickly bought a Revolution Supersonic to teach myself with. That is like having no shooting experience and waking up one morning and buying a Red Wolf to learn airgunning with.
Also, one of the many mods for the Discovery/Maximus is the Fortitude modification. The Fortitude has actually been around almost as long as the Marauder. A company was building the conversion parts to turn a Discovery into a Fortitude many years ago. TCFKAC just recently decided to adopt that mod recently and still messed it up the first time around.
I’ve been on both sides. Just recently dipped back into pcps. My .02$ is that I can be almost as accurate with a Springer, but it’s harder to perfect technique. And you’ll sacrifice fpe. But there is no stopping to pump.
A 97k in 22 will give a solid 17 fpe and cost about 500$ shipped. One hole at 25 yards usually.
A umarex gauntlet in ,25 and a pump will be the same price. Expect about 45 fpe. I wouldn’t look at any other gauntlet as the 25 had a barrel band. This will also make one hole groups at 25 yds.
For me I have both and many others….the Springers get more use. I don’t have to fiddle with them. Just cock and shoot.
Bill,
No doubt when I made that promise I had something in mind. My rememberer isn’t clicking right now.
What are the basics ofd the discussion?
B.B.
Bill,
You are still comparing apples and oranges.
To have any kind of comparison you first have to decide which parameters you are comparing. Is it cost, cost per shot, weight, power, effort per shot, reliability, accuracy, hold sensitivity, range…? First you must decide which parameters are important.
There are times I find a sproinger is the best choice and other times it is out of the question. This is why I have mild and magnum sproingers. I have small, medium and large caliber PCPs.
It all comes back to this question. “What are you going to do with this air rifle?”
This question is indeed basic. In my mind the answer for this power level is some kind of hunting. So, don’t you think that it could be an interesting comparison?
Bill
Bill,
Only to a point, that point being range. When you talk of 17 FPE, the only sproinger I know of that will give you small game hunting accuracy beyond 25 yards is the ASP20. Any other I know of is going to be hold sensitive and want to jump around like a mule that kicked a hornet’s nest.
In the UK they regularly kill small game at 50+ yards with a sub 12 FPE PCP.
The sproinger world has a ways to go yet before they can truly challenge the PCP in anything but operational cost. Do not get me wrong, I would really like to see this. They are just not there yet.
Actually the power level I mentioned is the 30 fpe one. This is where the Gamo magnum are. And your thoughts about sensitivity could be actually one more parameter.
In my mind it’s always interesting to compare different approaches to achieve a certain goal.
Bill
Bill,
So,… you have heard a few different opinions on the topic of PCP vs other. Are you exploring the topic of going PCP? Are you a hard core springer man? Do you own or have shot any PCP’s?
With all due respect,…. what you are asking is a bit akin to the “apples to oranges” quandary that someone put forth prior.
For what it is worth,….. I started out springer and after I learned more about PCP’s,… there really was no longer any choice,…. for what (I) wanted. Yup,… it will cost you more to shoot but that is just the simple, hard reality of it.
Chris
As a matter of fact my principal airguns now are pcp. A .25, 40fpe Bullpup and a .25 15fpe pistol. But I also use the .17 Air King from time to time and the two HW45s I’m going to be buried with. Still I would like to see that comparison.
Bill
Bill,
Well then,… very good. It shall be interesting to see what BB might put together on the topic.
Chris
Bill,
I personally have never heard of a sproinger at that power level, though some may claim such. I will tell you right now that with the present technology you are not going to be able to hit the broad side of the barn standing inside. That thing is going to buck and stomp like a pissed off Missouri mule and slap you side the head like a sledgehammer. One of the finest sproingers I know of, the ASP20, only develops around 20 FPE. I do not think you could cock a sproinger that develops 30 FPE.
The reason you are not going to be able to hit anything is that sproinger is going to go through all of that jumping and bucking and twisting and slapping before the pellet likely even starts moving down the barrel. Just how good is your artillery hold?
Perhaps one day the engineers will figure out how to circumvent the laws of physics and develop a more powerful sproinger that you can actually shoot decently, but it ain’t there yet.
Per
Bill,
By the way, where did you get this 30 FPE number? I am really curious.
Gamo Swarm Magnum Multi-shot Air Rifle as per Pyramydair list.
Bill
Bill,
Interesting. Gamo claims 26.6 FPE. That is indeed quite powerful for a sproinger. Some state it is very hold sensitive. This does not surprise me. Some also state that after shooting it for a bit, you are ready to take a break. With that power level it must take a good bit of force to cock.
Now this is just a me thing. If I am looking for something up to about 12-14 FPE I like fooling with a sproinger. If I want power above that, range greater than 25 yards and spot on accuracy I will grab a PCP.
I’ll never gamo again. I bought a magnum 17, to shoot heavy pellets for a lark. It’s the worst Springer I have. The trigger is okay, but it’s loud, harsh and ugly. And it barely makes 17fpe. I have a 100$ crosman gas Piston that makes 17 in 17 and it smooth and quiet, for about a third of the price.
BB,
Thanks! I have only owned and tried one Gamo, the CFX. It was extremely accurate. It was also very hold sensitive. Mine was an older used one where the trigger was likely broken in. It was lousy. A Charlie Da Tuna trigger was much better, though not perfect.
PA modified a one piece scope mount for me because the mount would not grip the dovetail tight enough and the scope would move backward with every shot.
I tried it with a gas sproing. That was an absolute disaster. It would literally slap me side the head every shot. If I could have had an adjustable gas sproing or a less powerful one it may have worked better. Fortunately, I had a massive detonation that blew out all of the seals not long after this conversion by PA. Gene and Sandy were gracious enough to replace all the seals and put my old sproing back in and refund my money. Gene still remembers this particular air rifle.
Generally though, I enjoyed and learned much with that Gamo CFX. Because of it I have paid close attention to the evolution of their air rifles through the years. I saw their replacement of the trigger assembly with what I guess was their version of the T 05 and heard how it was not better, but could not be upgraded. Then came the SAT. It was better, but still not quite there. Recently they introduced the CAT. I have been hearing that it is a respectable trigger for a sproinger. Still not a Rekord or Air Arms, but very usable.
The point of this is that not only is Gamo listening, they are doing. They have become a major player in the airgun world. They have done such because they have continued to improve on their designs, are innovative and still able to keep their price point very competitive.
I may end up with another Gamo yet.
B.B.
Thanks for the report. I grew up in the 60’s. For the longest time I thought Gamo was part of Wham-o, lol.
They both had cheap plastic things in the store….
Almost bought a Compact Gamo target pistol 40 years later.
Thanks for setting me straight.
-Y
Yogi,
Wham-O! Now, THERE is a name in both airguns and firearms. Gotta do them someday.
B.B.
Yogi,
Hula Hoops!
shootski
Shake it to the left, shake to to the right, shake it all around…..
-Y
My opinion Gamo puts out today rifles that are good out of the box. I am not saying they are the best choice in a given category. What about all plastic, but doesn’t the Magnum have all steel barrel & breech.
My old Gamo rifles needed the GRT and the new CAT was usable out of the box i did make it lighter and it is a great gun in its own way yes it is mostly plastic however solid and a good shot cycle and also likes the barracuda 5.53 & H&N snipers.
After having used the CAT trigger i will not count out any model with that trigger if i can find a deal.
I have 3 Gamo rifles and have done careful trigger work on all of them and i like each one.
Of the new ones i dont know up the power and things get ugly with springers.
Mike,
I bought my first air rifle, a Gamo CFX, because of BB’s review of it. though it has some faults, a few of which I could correct, I learned to shoot that sproinger and dime sized groups at 25 yards became boring.
Now BB is beginning to tout the new generation of Gamo air rifles. I personally would stay away from plastic breech/receiver blocks, but their stocks make for a light and easy to handle air rifle. I would suggest filling the voids with foam to help reduce the hollow sound.
No, these are not Weihrauch. They also do not cost as much. IMMHO I would recommend a Gamo to someone looking for an inexpensive entry into the world of sproingers, closely followed by the Diana 34.
Well like i said i have a whisper fusion elite and got it cheap and plastic plastic plastic and yet even though the stock but hollowish it has adjustable cheek rest and perhaps that helps a little. I zeroed at 25yds and admit it seems not to group like an underlever.
Every last time i have taken it out to pop a squirrel even at longer range of 40yds i have made the shot. I don’t know how much of that is luck a thing i don’t believe in so chance, but i can’t argue with the results. I paid an even hundred and should point out this is not the higher output IGT the higher power guns have now. I would never pay $300 for a top end Gamo with the other choices out now. I am kina bummed they quit making the Accu in .22 and that was what made me look at the Stoeger underlever when i happened to find a deal on the Gauntlet .25 and read about the stats improvements and user experience.
Almost every other choice i make is a matter of finding a deal one way or another. My Gamo guns hardly happy out of the box experiences in point of fact only the plastic one was usable out of the box. Like i said MSRP or even close i would make another choice. As of right now today you can find a Diana 430L for $150 a deal that is not going to last and wish i had the funds for, but then again an R9 – HW95l $400 or a synthetic stock ASDP20 or even the Umarex synergis though the first one i noted before that the Diana, wow!
I would not make an MSRP priced Gamo a first choice yet given the same price class i can say that about most air rifles and i know you can make a multitude of worse choices.
I almost never fail to mention my Gauntlet and how blown away i am with the accuracy .25 . I swore i would never hand pump and that i preferred springer over PCP, but i could go on and yet i had to align the bottle and adjust the trigger and you have to be ok with the fore end of the stock. I think those of us with more experience are comfortable with problems in the out of the box experience or the idea of returning for seemingly small defects.
I do remember as a noob not being ok with a bad out of box experience and i can see how a backyard situation and range a Gamo might be an acceptable choice just like i can see why someone might decide to choose a .30 break barrel given the right situation or a Gamo CFR that has the CAT trigger now and i have wanted one in the past and i am sure it has issues. I don’t like second guessing other peoples choices as i remember all the flack i took buying my Hatsan sniper125 vortex in .25 a choice i do not regret as out to 35yds it is a great pesting gun and the reason i got it. I had to save for that rifle that was the money i had and i remember how it made me feel when a sales representative tried pushing me into a HW90 for only $729 for .25 boy did i resent that. Did i have a point oh well i don’t remember.
Mike,
I myself have gone from the noob looking for perfection from the box to experienced where I can modify it to what I want to I know what I want and I am going to buy exactly what I want or I am not buying it.
I still enjoy the project that comes along occasionally, but not for “the collection”. Right now I have the quandary that I desire a .22 PCP for “the collection”. Do I buy exactly what I want, which I am still trying to decide on, or do I build what I want?
I never intended a collection and by most accounts i would not describe it as such. I never want to need to change anything, but a deal falls in my lap you snooze you lose.
I get where you are coming from and though i dont know what you want i am interested where you land on that 22.
Mike,
I think, but am not quite sure at this moment, what I want. Now it will take me a considerable time to save up for it. Ask me tomorrow and I will want something else in all likelihood.
I have a Gamo built Daisy 130 repeater, and can add to the chorus that says it can is pellet picky. But, it turns out it runs brilliantly on good old Crosman wadcutters. The trigger responded well to tinkering, and that little gun has become my 5 fpe plinking go to, being great fun and easy to use.
I also managed to find a 68 in 22 (another surprisingly fun gun), have a Daisy 131 (another Gamo rebrand) I bought pretty much just to try the CDT trigger, and a refurbished Whisper Fusion that was too great of a deal to pass up. The Whisper completely trounced my Hatsan 125, opening my eyes to what a stronger springer can be like. Overall they’ve been fun additions to my collection.
NTOG,
There you go! The older Gamos and El Gamos are great guns. And so are the latest ones.
B.B.
To be fair, I also had a Benjamin Titan XS that I modified the trigger on and ended up bending the barrel. I also have a L Gamo 300 that I think has a really good trigger but it also has a bent barrel, not me this time! However, after experiencing a Record trigger, if I was to buy another springer, I would save up the extra denari to buy an HW or Diana. No need to modify the trigger, just adjust them.
Brent
PS. Hey Ridge Runner. What’s the difference between a springer and a sproinger?
Brent,
LOL! Nothing! If you go to the PA website, when you look up a gas spring air rifle it will usually have a couple of cartoons advertising why a gas spring is so much better. In one of the cartoons the kid shoots his metal spring air rifle into the ground because he does not want to stress the spring for too long. When he pulls the trigger it goes “SPROING!”. Hence, they are sproingers.
As for the gas sproing, I am yet to be convinced they are better. I could see the advantage of an adjustable gas sproing, but good luck in finding one today.
Brent,
HW would be my first choice. If price is no object, Air Arms. The Diana triggers are very nice also, but do not forget the Hatsan Quatro triggers. I have one on my Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk and I am very pleased with it.
Brent ,
I would assume Sproingers are from China and vibrate . Springers are made in Europe !! Oh well , my sad attempt at humor today .
Gene,
I know about sad attempts at humor. I did put a Weihrauch spring in my Expo, and that did improve things. Of course, at the time I expected more fps. I had a lot to learn.
~ken
Gene,
They are all sproingers. Check out PA’s cartoon strips.
As for your attempt at humor, it is not that bad. It is better than I can pull off sometimes.
By the way, do you remember the Gamo CFX that you guys installed a gas sproing in and it ended up blowing out all of it’s seals?
B.B.,
Interesting report, for sure.
My first pellet rifle was a Sheridan Blue Streak; within four months I purchased my first break barrel springer, an El Gamo Expo.
I enjoyed the Expo, but I didn’t have it long. I sold it to a neighbor for reasons I no longer remember. I had installed a Weihrauch spring suggested by and purchased from ARH (after I had inquired about it). It was a good idea, although I failed to understand why at the time.
And now, I must apologize to you and everyone on this blog.
I am not in the hospital. That was my poor attempt at humor. I had not told my wife of my intentions to purchase the two Marauders. I did anticipate her displeasure with me in advance, however.
Well, after I wrote that I felt I had to discuss my intention with her.
So, I am not ending up in the hospital and I am also not purchasing the Marauders, either of them.
It’s a bummer, but I know I did the right thing. Back in late 2000 a drunk driver ended my wife’s career as a nurse. He changed our lives forever. C’est la vie.
~ken
Kenholmz,
No need to apologise for that post! At least not on my part. Prayers are never wasted.
“I have read and watched a lot about the Marauder. I can’t decide on the .177 or the .25 so I have committed to both. I’ll tell you more when I get out of the hospital.”
Some might argue that we are a SLOW bunch and others that we are On Top of most things. But we can’t be accused of either unless we know: THE REST OF THE STORY!
You however, should not quit your day job to be a Comedian Ken…timing is everything in Comedy!
shootski
Shootski,
Thanks. Good punchline, by the way.
~ken
Ken,
First of all,… GOOD that you are not actually in a hospital. Try a 😉 or/and a LOL! next time. That way,… we maybe know that you might be telling us all a bit of a “tall tale”.
The powerful PCP’s are nice. I am sure that if you ever get one,… you would enjoy it.
Chris
BB and RR
I need to decide whether to replace a failed Vortex air spring with a steel spring or another Vortex air spring. The cost is the same. My Hatsun 95 QE stopped holding air after 4 good years. Accuracy is too good to not fix this rifle. Obviously it isn’t a Gamo but I’m hoping you two or someone will comment that have tried both steel springs and gas/air springs in the same rifle. Hatsun will do the replacement either way I decide. Target accuracy at 25 yards is the objective.
Deck
Decksniper ,
Definitely have Hatsan USA put the original coiled spring in it . They are a calmer shot cycle due to the spring uncoiling gradually and the cocking effort is easier due to the stacking of the spring . In the future any repairs are easier as a coiled spring can be matched up, or a less powerful one installed.
Deck,
I’m with Gene on this one. That is what I would do, too.
B.B.
BB and Gene
Thanks to both for your comments. I was leaning toward a steel spring because I know what TIAT can do. You have tipped the scales enough for me.
Folks are quick to help on this blog! Thanks again!
Deck
Deck,
IMMHO, Gene is spot on. I have a Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk. The Quatro trigger is one of the best in the industry. It has a metal sproing and TIAT worked miracles on it, though it still has quite a thump.
I personally would not convert it to a gas sproing unless it was a variable pressure one. As you have noted, a gas sproing sometimes has a limited life cycle while a good quality coil sproing can last a very long time with proper care.
It’s just a me thing.
RR
I was not aware of variable power gas springs. Getting a power setting to hold consistently could be hard to achieve.
Regular readers are aware that gas spring claims have been made suggesting they are less hold sensitive and easier for most people to shoot accurately. After I get my rifle converted to a coil spring I should know if there is a difference. I know what it could do before it failed to hold air. I did not use an artillery hold and was able to get 10 shot groups consistently in 1/2″ to 3/4″ at 25 yards.
Thanks for your advice.
Deck
Deck,
Once upon a time in a far off land, Theoben made variable power gas sproings. The problem was that over here we would pump them up too high and end up destroying the piston seal. I do not know if the Theoben gas sproing that is in the HW90 / Beeman RX2 is variable or not.
In the beginning the Hatsan / Vortex gas sproing was also variable. I do not think so now.
Vortek has been playing around with a variable gas sproing, but they have not figured it out yet.
I myself would really like to have a variable gas sproing so as to tune the sproinger to the pellet.
If you properly tune your Hatsan, you should be able to once again shoot those groups. Please let us know how things go.
RR
Thanks and will let you know how this turns out.
On second thought variable power gas springs may not be worth the cost of R&D since we already have multi pump guns.
Deck
Deck,
You cannot change the pressure in the field. You open it up, set the pressure, close it up, test. Once you have it tuned, you leave it alone. Some can be made so that you do not have to open it to fill or bleed off air.
This is something that is not suited for noobies as most think the more pressure the faster it will go. What they end up doing is destroying the piston seal. Many do not grasp adjusting the pressure to find the sweet spot for your particular pellet.
I have a Crosman 101. A multi pump is fun to play with, but a follow up shot is almost impossible. Just think about being in the woods and you miss the squirrel with the first shot. Now you can start flapping and clacking about trying to get that air rifle pumped up for the next shot.
RR
Yep, getting there fastest is not necessarily bestest! At least not for shooting paper targets. My firearms get to do the hunting or used to. My airguns get to play at home but 25 yards is my space limit.
I did not realize that a variable gas springer was only for finding the accuracy sweet spot. Does this apply to multi pumps too? I have a Crosman Custom 1300KT Lothar Walther 14″ barrel that does well with several different pump selections. The POI changes with different velocities which is expected. I have wondered if 3 pumps is the sweet spot for accuracy but ballistics gets involved.
Thanks for your detailed responses.
Deck
Deck,
On another forum I have a signature that reads “What good is +500 FPE if you can’t hit what you are shooting at?” As many in the UK and elsewhere in the world have shown, power is not the answer. It does not take much power to kill a squirrel if you hit him in the head or the heart/lung zone.
Your 1300KT is just dandy for determining what is the best pellet at how many pumps. You can “tune” that air rifle and yourself to a point that Mr. Bushy Tailed Tree Rat lives in fear of your approach.
If you are real fortunate you can find a pellet that maintains tight groups and a vertical line with variations of the number of pumps.
Multi pumps most definitely have a place in a collection. They are not good for quick follow up shots, but you can learn so much from them.
RR
Here is the follow up on switching an accurate Hatsun 95 rifle from a gas spring to a metal spring. Hatsun Repair did the swap. I am very pleased to find that accuracy is still in the 1/2” to 3/4” size for 10 shot groups at 25 yards rested. There are two differences; the sound is no longer a ping, and the cocking effort is similar but easier at the finish.
I was glad to see Pyramyd AIR report today that the Hatsun 95 was one of the favorite springers.
Deck
RR
This is a follow up about converting my Hatsun 95 air springer (which failed) to a steel spring. Hatsun Repair did the job. I can report that accuracy is the same; 1/2” to 3/4” for 10 shot groups at 25 yards. Cocking effort is slightly better, sound has no ping but trigger is not as good as before. I decided to not take stock off to avoid more butchering of the forward stock screw. I am okay with the rifle in spite of the trigger. Have learned to cope with it and get same accuracy as before. Also I expect this rifle will last now.
Stay safe!
Deck
Gene Salvino,
Not being a Springer or Sproinger type I don’t know more about them then what I have learned from B.B. and his Blog followers. This question has always sat just below the surface every time air springs and coil springs are discussed together. Normally I just think not my bag so why ask! Today is different for some reason?
So the question is: Why not combine a coil spring and an air spring in a hybrid? Find a way as to get the best of both and eliminate as much of the bad characteristics as is possible of the two springs on their own?
Easy to ask, right!
shootsik
Shootski,
That would be interesting to see, but I think it would be an exercise in futility.
A properly designed, built and tuned coil sproinger is every bit as good if not better than any gas sproinger out there, at least IMMHO.
Also, how many low powered gas sproingers do you see? What happened to the variable powered gas sproings? I know the answers to these. This is why I still go with coil sproings. The industry has a ways to go yet.
Nice story, but Gamo shouldn’t feel too bad about their long and creepy first stage and surprise ending 2nd stage triggers. Ha Ha! They are not the only ones like that. Exactly like the trigger on my 1956 Russian SKS, that sometimes just goes full auto at the range. Definately draws attention when that happens. But the gun could be fixed at least. Sounds like Gamo to doesn’t fully understand that flinty American shooters place gun values in the
recreational equipment/toys we find at Walmart. I guess Crosman is doing a better job, because I know I can get another resevoir tube for the Prod and ditch the bottle conversion I did to it. Crosman had it right after all. I’ll just put a reg. in it, and be happy with it. Finally. Happy shopping one and all!
Rob
Rob,
Your SKS going full auto probably isn’t due to the trigger. The SKS is notorious for going full auto. The forward taper on the forward part of the firing pin doesn’t match the taper inside the bolt. The pin can stick in the forward position in the bolt and when that happens you have a full-auto gun that fires from, a open bolt. The US M3 grease gun does the same thing by design.
Check it out on the internet and you’ll find easy fixes.
B.B.
I think it is prone to firing from a butt strike on the stock. I dont trust the action, but it is cheap and too prone to firing almost. It was phased out of service quickly?
Rob,
In the Soviet Union the Kalashnikov displaced the SKS pretty quick, but in the allied countries like China the SKS stayed around a lot longer. It is a very good design, as long as it is produced to a standard. But the AK47 was much cheaper to produce and, with the advantage of select fire, it overwhelmed the Siminov.
B.B.
I enjoy that cartridge, probably way more in a bolt action tho!
And it’s deer legal too.
R
Shootski ,
Not really a way to do a hybrid spring easily . Most spring guns use a post type sear in the center of the piston , gas-ram guns use the bottom of the piston for the sear surface . Overall the coil spring is best due to the dynamics of uncoiling over a longer period of time versus the violent, faster gas ram . This is why gas ram guns tend to slap Your cheek . A properly filled RX series or a ASP20 from Sig Sauer will not do this because they are not over sprung ( too much piston velocity ) . For a coil spring to not oscillate and buzz You need grease and this is not good in extremely cold climates. The gas ram guns are cheaper to produce since there is no top hat or spring guide , so they weigh less. This is why you see so many Inexpensive gas ram guns , cheaper to produce and people want them !! Perfect for the manufacturers.
Gene Salvino,
Thank you for your concise answer. Makes perfect sense and helps with another couple of pro and con entries on the buy decision sheet. I knew about the tar (old school,) grease, TIAT that B.B. has covered. The spring coated in grease and cold temperatures is one that I hadn’t put together. It has always been a major concern in firearms and aircraft in my life but didn’t crossdeck to airguns.
shootski
Shootski,
Do not fall for the false propaganda that gas sproings are not affected by the cold. Perhaps you have noticed that the gas struts on car hoods and such do not work as well in cold weather. It happens with air rifles also.
https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/do-gas-ram-air-rifles-give-different-fps-at-different-temperatures/
RidgeRunner,
No way!
Although I must say that the gas struts on our pre GM hatchet job on SAAB have held up heavy loads of snow on their large 5th doors (hatchback) over many load/unload cycles. I suspect that must mean it (reliable COLD temperature function) can be designed for if you recognize the requirement and are willing to pay the cost. But then how few of us are outside shooting our airguns in the COLD of Winter ;^)
shootski
Shootski,
So?,… when shall we all hear your critique/comment on the question you posed? (Will a regulated PCP guarantee you accuracy out of the box?) Sorry to see that your question did not receive more responses. I would have thought better.
Chris
Shootski,
Way! Most gas sproings are not designed by those who use them to build airguns. Also, do you think they want to spend a lot for what they use? Those that you find in the airguns from TCFKAC come from China. Hmmm.
RidgeRunner,
My No Way! Was in regards to your: “Do not fall for the false propaganda that gas sproings are not affected by the cold.” I fully believe they are affected by the COLD.
I was going to stop my HAM bashing, for a bit, but you have forced my hand!
I don’t however believe that the HAM testing actually is a reliable scientifically defensable test conclusion. Shooting at a 40-50°F temperature spread results in about a 4-5 PSI change in gas spring air pressure I’ll give them that as an Thermodynamic/Gas Law given. But what was the Density Altitude on the Winter day vs the warm day? Also lead and steel have differing rates of contraction and expansion; how did that change the bore constriction drag? I’m only going to point out a few of the many variables that would need to be controlled for in order that the “test” performed would amount to more than interesting speculation.
I concur that many manufacturers have been allowed to get away with palming off substandard products on the “Toy Airgun” buying public. I hope the few companies that continue to try to not do that are supported by blogs like this one and the informed readership making certain to buy from them!
shootski
Shootski,
LOL! Way! LOL!
You are correct to point out the many variables that were not taken into account. No matter how many are accounted for, there will likely be some that are not. I think this goes a little bit beyond interesting speculation though. This is more of an illustration of experience. Just as the gas sproinger gang points out, the lubricant, steel coil, etc. is affected by the cold, but so is the gas sproing, some more than others.
They also exaggerate the advantage that the gas sproing will not take a set as a coil sproing will. It has been tested and shown that a decent quality coil sproing will not take a set in only a few hours. With a gas sproing at full compression for a long period of time not more likely to have a seal failure?
The gas sproing does not vibrate and has a faster compression stroke, thereby increasing power. With that power in most sproingers there is an increase in hold sensitivity, violent forward recoil and decreased accuracy.
I know this is not scientific data, but I have heard of more gas sproing failures than coil sproing failures. I am certain that with increased quality this decreases, but the cost increases.
I do believe that a gas sproing has some advantages over a coil sproing, but why is it that most experienced sproinger shooters still go with the coil sproing?
My babbling mostly boils down to this, “Beware the marketeer, he only wants your money”.
Gene,
so are you saying that the HW90 / RX series are still variable gas sproings?
Gene Salvino,
There are a few coil sproing guns that operate the same as gas sproing. Frequently you will see them offered with either. I personally see no real advantage to such a hybrid except “because I can”.
Now the SSP/sproinger hybrid employed by the Webley Paradigm has possibilities, though cost will likely doom it as it did the Paradigm.
Being rather new to the sport I bought a Gamo silent cat on sale at the local farm supply store. I learned to shoot it well with Gamo pellets over the next few months. This was all I knew of the big world of air gunning at that time. Several air guns later I still have that Gamo and shoot it but not often. It is special because it got me involved in modern air gunning.
There is an event where the Gamo break barrel is the star. Look up the ‘Gamo squirrel master classic’ .
Gerald
BB
Is the HW 55 pretty much a recoiless gun in its 6-7 fpe Configuration?
Brent
Brent,
If it is well-tuned at that power level then yes. I have a 55SF that is pretty much what you describe.
B.B.
Good blog. Except two things.
The SKS, even when it doubles or goes full-auto does not fire “from an open bolt”.
The Gamo 126 does not “work fine”. They are notoriously unreliable and hard to fix.
Geezer,
The definition of firing from an open bolt is a machine gun that has the firing pin fixed on the bolt in the forward or protruding position. The guns designed to shoot that way, like the M3 grease gun, have bolts that are timed so they are fully in battery when the firing pin sets off the round. When the trigger of such a gun is released their bolts are caught by the sear in their rearward position, In other words, their actions are open.
An SKS with its firing pin stuck in a protruding position fires exactly like an open bolt machine gun, only it is not timed to fire that way and can blow up if the timing gets too far off. Also the trigger is not able to catch the bolt, so the firing is a runaway instead of a controlled situation.
As far as the Gamo 126 being good or bad we shall see, as I am trying to bring one in for testing. All of them that I have shot have worked well.
B.B.
B.B.
You Mention Air Rifle Headquarters, that is not related to these folks here; https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/page/page/251327.htm
Guessing that this is a newer unrelated group.
Mike
Mike,
The link you provided is to a different company that uses the ARH name, now that the original ARH is gone. Here is a 3-part blog about the original ARH:
/blog/2010/09/a-brief-history-of-beeman-and-air-rifle-headquarters-part-3/
B.B.
B.B. and Readership,
So it is the weekend and we seem to be finished beating GAMO to death for their few years of apparent screwups!
Now we are into the wide-open discussion part of the weekend and I think we have another gift from HAM. The current piece about the Diana Stormrider PCP and optional Regulator for the buyer to ponder buying. So what’s up with an article about an optional regulator that’s troubling…a whole bunch. So with a break barrel you don’t have much adjustability and the ACCURACY GAME is the typically extensive search for the pellet type, weight, manufacturer that gives the best accuracy and terminal performance for the owners needs. Much the same can be said for Single Stroke Pumpers. With Multipump Pneumatics you get to choose number of pumps and then do the same extensive pellet search as usual. Then we have the Back to the Future PCPs. At first they mostly (a few Dump Valve were built) came with a (potentially) balanced valve and the owner was right back to the best pellet search. Some folks chose to change hammer weight or springs to tune their guns and others stepped up and installed adjusters for hammer spring preload. Still others changed the transfer ports but in the end regardless of what you did you still had a curve of some type that defined muzzle velocity. You got to choose more power and typically fewer shots or more shots with lower kinetic energy. But what if you are the typical first time airgunner; well so far you are probably going to be a frustrated buyer and probably that airgun is going to get returned, sold, put in the corner, or worse…dumped in the waste bin!
Comes now to the rescue one more help for the new airgunner…The REGULATOR…dun dun DUN! ADD one of these and you have a regulated Airgun improves not only ACCURACY but over a much larger number of shots!
How It Do that? Short answer IT DON’T!
So let’s add an ADJUSTABLE regulator! Instant easy ACCURACY! R E A L L Y?
I know the vast majority of the folks that reply to B.B.’s Blog are not new to airgunning but among the Readership there are folks who are.
The question to the new Airgunners is: Do regulators and now adjustable regulators sell PCP airguns because you believe they will be ACCURATE?
For the Old Hands the question is: Do they in fact provide ACCURACY out of the box?
shootski
Shootski,
For me,… I added a reg. to the .22 Maximus. My 1st shot was the same fps as my 30th. I will take that. 8fps was any variation and that was never abrupt. I will take that.
My Red Wolf will get at least 70 shots with very minimal spread (7 fps). I will take that.
Keep that spread tight and the shot will be more accurate,…. less vertical stringing.
So yes,…. a regulated gun is more accurate,.. but,.. there is more to accuracy than just having a regulated gun as you well know. PCP’s in general are far less hold fussy and that too helps accuracy.
Chris
Shootski,
After a couple of re-reads of your post,… the answer is no. They do not,…. (IN FACT) provide accuracy out of the box. It is just one more variable that is now better controlled. Controlling variables of (any kind) is always good. Still,…. it is no excuse to not learn/understand all about what you are doing. In the big newbie picture,… a regulated or unregulated PCP will not likely make much difference if they are not willing to dig a lot deeper.
On the Maximus,… I knew what an unregulated shot string(s) looked like. I adjusted the regulator (read: adjust, install, chrony, remove, readjust),…. 5X!!!!! Fun? No it was not. I did learn a lot though. I ended up with an fps that was very steady over at least 30 shots, just below what the average was before. Prior,… 30 shots saw a 100 fps spread. Plus,… I can fill to 3000 which added more shots. I stopped collecting data at 30 shots on the regulated version because that is the data that I had for unregulated. There in fact could be 40 good shots.
So yea,… I like regulated PCP’s. I do not get to shoot as often as I would like and the more simple (less variables) works for me,.. for now. But like I said earlier in the post,… I also have spent several years understanding the rest of the airguning scene too.
Chris
I don’t think the pistols have had a mention yet, I’ve had a little experience with some of the more classic Gamos, years ago with a s/h Falcon pistol and more recently with the overlever SSPs.
The Falcon underlever springer, and the earlier Center (which had better grips) and later Target (still better grips and trigger) in some ways displayed the best and not-so-good of Gamo – blued steel cylinder, barrel and underlever, but with a fair amount of plastic in the sights for example. The foresight assembly acts as the retaining point for the underlever, which has a spring-loaded ball in its tip, and was (I seem to remember) a push fit over the muzzle.
Then, in the mid-late 1980s, they introduced their overlever SSPs – the first, I think, after the FAS 604 – starting with the PR15 (15 shot lead ball), PR45 (single shot pellet) and Compact. Again these have a mix of steel and plastic in them, for those more familiar with the HW40 / P3 design they do not have a synthetic frame with steel inserts, but a synthetic lower frame/grip and a blued steel ‘cradle’ that forms the top half of the frame. A nice touch, which the HW40 does not have, is that the screws for the barrel retaining clamp do not just go into the overlever, but there are steel bushings for machine screws to tighten into.
On the other hand, the PR15 and 45 have a plastic trigger blade that looks more like it belongs on a water pistol.
If these three SSPs all have a certain degree of commonality among them, the AF10 is then quite distinct, and while it has the same synthetic/steel construction for the frame, the overlever assembly always feels much less substantial to me.
iain
Iain,
A very nice looking collection that any airgun owner should be proud to own. I personally do not have any experience with any of them, but I sure would like to play with them for a bit.
Thank you – but they aren’t all mine.
The Compact is a club gun, and while I’m happy to get it out for a few shots I’ve never got it set up just for my liking – the grip, and in particular the thumbrest, is a bit uncomfortable for any extended session.
The PR15 belongs to another member, I found it interesting to have a quick look at its mechanism, especially in comparison to the PR45 – the same lower frame but with a longer overlever, which then forms the basis of the Compact. Note that the Compact is not ‘wooden target grips on a PR45 frame’ since the PR45 doesn’t have a frame with left and right grip panels but is constructed along the lines of the HW40 / P3 in that regard: the left grip is integral with the frame and the right covers and retains the mechanism.
Of these four SSPs, only the PR15 seems to have been discontinued. I suppose that while it was significant when it was introduced (recoilless, repeating – sort of, anyway – and cheap) that position has been lost with the rise of CO2 power.
iain
Iain – UK,
You have answered almost all the questions in your most recent post. Thank you!
It seems SSP in both pistols as well as rifles never sold many units in the USA. I guess the more power obsession was far too strong. I’ll not deny that power has a place but just not for every endeavor.
shootski
After reading Tom’s blog for m any years, I finally deciced to order 1250 of a pellet he’s been touting forever. That is the Crosman Premier Lights asd he calls them I believe. Amazon has them at $19.64. They are out of stock, but I locked the price in. Free shipping to me in Hawaii too.
I want to say that, I am sorry for the many typing errors I currently am making. Not a great speller anyway, but also I have switched over to a Kindle 7″ , and writing on the tint touch screen is .maddeningly difficult. Also, after being on lupron for two years in a fight with cancer, well, it has side effects.
I had mentioned to Tom that my Crosman Model 760 likes the RWS Meisterkugeln rifle pellets the best, and he is reviewing a newer model 760. I am a fan of multi-pump airguns, and own a few of them. Right now, that RWS pellet is either the favorite, or very close to it in my 760, my Crosman 1377 carbine, my umrex APX NPG, and my Daisy 880. My Remington Airmaster (older metal breech model), however, has a liking for the RWS Basics.
I recently ordered and tried some Excite Econ wad cuttsr pellets. These are H&N pdllets thzt are, I believe, made in China. Excite pointed, round nose, and hollow points are also available, but I haven’t tried these. But, the Econsshoof well enough that I want to keep them on my shelf.
I should say that I have tried few “premium” pellets. No JSB, and just the Barracuda Hunters. The Hunters have not done that well for me.
I was happy when Crosman announced their Custom Shop would start having the 1377/1322 platform available. I had ordered a 2400KT when we still lived in Washington State, and thought it was a good gun at a good price. We moved to the big island of of Hawaii near Hilo in 2011. I looked into ordering a Custom Shop 1377 based multi-pump. The bad news is, Crosman will only ship airguns via FedEx, and they run well over $100 shipping. I don ‘tget thzt. Amazon will ship most airguns to me for free, especially with Prime. I’m quite sure it’s the same thing to residents of Alaska. Pyramid charges $20 shipping to me for an airgun.
I know I’m rambling a bit here, but, I’m rambling among friends.
Birdmove,
I have quite the selection of pellets (though not near the extent of some people) and the JSB’s have (always) won out in (any) gun I have tried them in,… so do try them if you can. That is after extensive testing of what I have. Sorry to hear that you have so much trouble with the on and off issues of shipping cost. That has to be quite frustrating.
The new-er slugs (or slugs in general) have my interest at the moment. No rush though as it is Winter in Ohio. So,… I have a few months to ponder any future ammunition choices. The only ones I have tried have been the HN Grizzly’s.
Chris
B.B. and Readership,
More HAMing around! So I am intrigued by the coverage of the Diana Stormrider PCP and optional Regulator. And now the upsell for the cylinder OPTIONAL Manometer (aka, pressure gauge at the fill end) which I do think is a good idea (actually should be required) given that the aftermarket regulator blocks the charge part of the pressure vessel and changes the fill gauge into a regulator output indicator. So in the HAM piece they end with this caution:
“However, please note that it’s not so easy to change the regulator set pressure if you’re not happy with the shot count/FPS balance. You will need to remove and reinstall the regulator to do so. It CAN be done – we did it! – but it’s quite hard to get the installed regulator back out of the HPA tube.”
WHY? (I’ll get back to what I think caused that WARNING to be included. You all mull that over and see what reasons you can think of.) “- we did it! -” Oh so proud of themselves; Lol!
PA’s Tyler Patner did a video of the how too and it is WAY BETTER:
/product/diana-regulator-for-stormrider-bandit?a=8938
But Tyler doesn’t get away with nothing but plaudits from shootski either!!! He did check for complete depressurization, lubed O-Rings with appropriate non-EXPLOSIVE lube, and put on his SAFETY glasses! NO Sir! He must think his hands are covered in anti-corrosive!!! No corrosion prevention protocal on opening a threaded compressed gas cylinder and installing the regulator without a degrease or at least a wipedown!!!
I think a blog or at least study of BEST practices when handling HIGH (actually ULTRA HIGH) pressure gas systems is warranted for everyone that uses PCP and Multi Pumpers:
https://ehs.unc.edu/chemical/compressed-gas/
shootski
B.B. and Readership,
I didn’t forget! I’m still HAMing around too!
I think the WARNING about how difficult it is to remove the REGULATOR once installed is that the threaded “installation” rod will be almost “impossible” for SOME HAM handed folks to thread into the end of the regulator and then pull it out. Maybe for the HAM handed the end of the rod should be knurled for better grip? Perhaps they don’t know the Latex, leather or rubber gloves/strap trick????
shootski
Shootski,
If?,… that is your reply,… then I completely missed the under tone of the original comment. Hand/glove protection so as not to induce corrosion. Good point and one which I have not heeded.
So,… clear a day or two and do a ((guest blog)) and educate us all on the finer points of air gun (PCP) modification.
As for ease of removal and adjustment,…. a roll of twist-tie type wire (garden section) from the local Wally-world did the trick. Yep,… it was no fun in hindsight,… but at the time I was quite enthused and it did not seem too bad,… at the time.
What say you?
Chris
Chris USA,
RidgeRunner actually answered it for me:
“I myself have gone from the noob looking for perfection from the box to experienced where I can modify it to what I want…”
You and many others know that the thing that is frequently called accuracy is actually precision. The barrel is the final and I believe most important thing in the precision equation. Accurateness is only found in the hands, trigger finger, eyes, and brain of the shooter. A precise and repeatable shootin’ iron in the hands of a (h)am handed individual is accurate only with the occasional lucky 3 round (or Photo Showed) group!
I believe that regulators can provide an easier route to accurate shooting since when/IF they are working to specification they remove otherwise required skill(s) as in Tuning (striker [hammer]/spring rates/preload/Transfer Port ∆/initial fill pressure, etc.) the the unregulated action, learning, and documenting the Dope of the shot curve. IF you have a Chronograph (or Splatology in a pinch) since if you don’t own or borrow one you will forever just be guessing and forever be relegated to be nothing more than a plinker!
Be aware that I mean no disrespect; I Plink and know that being a Plinker can be fun…just not a (p)linker!
plinker: one who buys a “Toy” Airgun and never ever thinks (has the Epiphany) that there might be a way to do better at it than MOSC at 5-10 yards!
shootski
B.B. and Readership that celebrate it,
Happy 1st Sunday in Advent!
May the glory of the season and the celebration of the birth of Jesus fill your hearts!
shootski
Ridgerunner .,
Yes , the Rx2 / HW90 is a variable fill design . You will need a gauge to verify fill pressure . In 177 to .22 use 22 BAR Maximum and on 25 caliber use 23 BAR maximum . 325 psi is optimal ( 22 bar). Any pressures above this level will cause increased cocking effort and harsh shot cycle. As far as remembering Your gun I have had a few CFX blow the breech block o-rings, I do remember a few Gamos with the factory mounts being sheared off from the recoil .