The Beeman R10/HW 85: Part 4

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

HW 85
Weihrauch HW 85.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • Sight-in
  • The test
  • Crosman Premiers
  • JSB Exact Jumbo
  • POI shift!
  • RWS Superdomes
  • Evaluation
  • Summary

It took me a month, but today I’m back with the HW 85 to test the accuracy at 25 yards with a scope. In Part 3 I had a meltdown, turning in some of the worst groups I have ever published in this blog. I felt strongly that it was because I couldn’t see the front sight and today we will find out whether that was right.

I mounted a UTG 3-12X44 AO in 30mm BKL high rings. This scope is very clear and well-suited to the HW85’s power. The BKL mounts won’t slip even under recoil.

Sight-in

The scope was already zeroed from the Diana Stormrider test so sight-in went pretty fast. I started with two shots at 12 feet and then backed up to 25 yards for the test.

The test

The rifle was shot off a rest, using the artillery hold with the rifle rested on the flat of my palm. My off hand was extended out to the middle of the cocking slot. I shot 10 of each pellet, with one exception that I will discuss when we get there. Let’s get started.

Crosman Premiers

The sight-in pellet was the domed Crosman Premier, so that was the pellet for the first group. The group is fairly well centered in the bull, but I wanted to leave dead center to use as my aim point. Ten pellets went into a group that measures 0.387-inches between centers. Oh, my! In the last report I did not shoot this pellet at 25 yards, but the two I did shoot grouped in 2 inches or greater. I said then that I was hoping for a 3/4-inch group at 25 yards. This group is about half that large.

HW85 Crosman Premier group
Ten Crosman Premiers went into 0.387-inches at 25 yards. That is a group!

Now we know the rifle can shoot! I discovered after the last report that I needed to use low-magnification reading glasses to see the front sight post and also to put drops into my eyes, which I now do several times each day. This is the most dramatic improvement I have ever seen when just one thing was changed. I guess BB is really gettin’ older!

In fact, this is such a good result that I am encouraged to try this rifle at 50 yards. I have never had much success with a Beeman R1 at longer distances, so this is a real positive result.

JSB Exact Jumbo

Next up was the 15.89-grain JSB Exact Jumbo pellet. In the last test these were great at 10 meters (0.288-inches for 10) but opened to 1.903-inches at 25 yards. Using the scope I mounted I was able to put 10 of them into 0.667-inches at 25 yards. It’s a larger group, but still very respectible.

HW85 JSB Exact Jumbo grup 25 yards
Ten JSB Exact Jumbos made this 0.667-inch group at 25 yards.

POI shift!

Look at where those pellets landed. The point of impact shifted when I fired a different pellet. They are centered an inch higher and three-quarters of an inch to the right of the Premier group. That tells me the HW85 is very twitchy in how it wants to be held. To tell the truth, I really worked for group number one. For group two I shot faster and, while I still used the artillery hold, I didn’t prepare as long for each shot. That by itself could have been the difference in the group size.

RWS Superdomes

The final pellet I tested was the RWS Superdome. In the last test with open sights Superdomes grouped 10 in 2.694-inches, though only one pellets opened the group up. Nine were in 0.978-inches at 25 yards — just under an inch.

With a scope I was able to put 10 into 0.977-inches at 25 yards. I think maybe the Superdome is not the best pellet for this rifle. Notice that this group has shifted again. It’s about one inch to the left and a little lower than the last group.

RWS Superdome group 25 yards
Ten RWS Superdome pellets went into this 0.977-inch group at 25 yards.

This is the second group I shot with this pellet. I wasn’t satisfied that I was shooting well enough during the first group, though it turned out about the same size as this one.

Evaluation

The HW85 is a very accurate springer that’s also quite sensitive to the hold. There may be an even better version of the artillery hold than the one I used today. Maybe when I go out to 50 yards I will test that with a single pellet — the Crosman Premier.

Summary

I’m so glad the rifle is this accurate. It’s such a smoothie that I wanted to hang onto it, and today I saw the accuracy that makes that a done deal.

41 thoughts on “The Beeman R10/HW 85: Part 4

  1. B.B.

    This definitely illustrates what a difference a scope makes for aging eyesight. How did you come by to decide shoot with your off hand extended out to the middle of the cocking slot? In the ten meter test you held off hand forward, under the rear of the cocking slot. I know there is a lot to learn about shooting accurately with the artillery hold but how is there a method by which we can get a better determination where to put our off hand to support the rifle?

    Siraniko

    PS Section Sight-in last word of the last sentence: “for the teas (test).”


    • Siraniko,

      Like BB was saying, his forward hold may not be the best for this particular air rifle. Every sproinger shoots different. The last time he shot it, the groups were horrible. The hold may or may not have been part of it, so he likely tried something different for that reason. We will see how he does at 50 yards.



  2. B.B.,

    That is some fine, fine shooting at 25 yards. A quick look at my .22 TX and LGU targets rarely showed anything in the 1/2″ range. Some, but more rare than common. I’m mid 50’s and it is scope only for me. Unapologetic. A funny side,.. prior to 50 I had to actually think and count to say how old I was. I never gave it any concern. Today is still the same but life has it’s ways of tossing in some subtle,.. and not so subtle reminders,.. as time goes on.

    Good Day to you and to one and all,… Chris

    PS: On the last group,.. I think that it shifted left?, rather than right? 😉

    I am happy for you that this tuned rifle turned out to be a good one. I am really looking forwards to the 50 yard test.




  3. Way off subject, but I thought I would pass this along. I was looking around to see if I could find a PowerMax HiPAC kit and it seems they are no longer available. You guys who happen to have one of those things might want to take real good care of them.


  4. BB,
    I am smiling for you.
    I have two thoughts about forward hand placement in the artillery hold. One thought is that there is one place that is better than any other and you just have to keep trying until you find it. The other thought is that only a comfortable hand location will be held consistently. And, it is consistency that is most important.

    David Enoch



  5. BB,

    Amazing improvement with the scope ! I shoot better with a scope, even if it’s just the $ 25 variety. I can’t remember ever using an aperature sight. Are they more forgiving with poor eyesight than open sights?


  6. My detuned R1 (11.8 FPE) shoots very well out to 50 yards…thats with the front of the forearm resting on a tripod cushioned rest or on a bipod as long as I keep a light grip in back.

    Brent




      • BB

        Thanks. I’ve got 3 popular priced springers including an M8 that are twitchy nervous to both hold and pellets. My theory is to find a pellet that wants to group well with at least 7 out of 10 shots. Then I experiment with holds using only that pellet. Even so, I have trouble duplicating a good group. I think it is either hold comfort or scope parallax issues. This is not a problem with my Weihrauch HW30s or Diana 34 or pnuematics. I just enjoy trying to extract the best accuracy possible from anything that pleases my eye.

        Decksniper


        • Decksniper
          Same with me with the M8 I had and the HW30s I have.

          I shot both guns with same scope and same red dot sight. The HW30s always does better than the M8 did.

          I don’t think it is hold or parallax. I think it is that both guns have different shot cycles. The HW30s is much smoother to shoot than the M8.


          • Gunfun1

            No doubt about my HW30s. I have posted here before that I can’t imagine any air rifle under $500 besting it at 10 meters. I own too many scopes and got sloppy with eye position with some that wiggle the POA. Other scopes do not or only slightly. But the shot cycle of the Weihrauch is so smooth I have not touched it, not even with TIAT. Not expecting M8 to compete with it but I do want it inside an inch at 25 yards. It can do it on a given day but I can’t repeat it next time.

            Decksniper


            • Decksniper
              The M8 I had did exactly as yours did.

              And I have to say I’m actually getting pretty good shooting my HW30s open sites. I can hit my 1-1/2″ spinners from 15 yards out to 50 yards repeatedly now. And even getting good at my (Kentucky) windage holds when it’s windy. I found I don’t have to hold as much with the open sites for hold over and under or left to right windage. Or it seems that way anyway compared to mildot holds. In other words it’s like open sites to me anyway are more forgiving in sight error than scopes.

              It’s hard to explain. I can pinpoint my shots and group good with scopes. But also the open sights on the HW30s can hit the spinners as well as my scope guns.


              • Gunfun1

                Glad your HW30s is becoming a regular for you. I think you had said when you first got it you would prefer to shoot it without a scope but wound up scoping it anyway. I know something about your shooting ability from seeing targets you post on occasion. I’m guessing now with the open sights you are getting into “the zone” that trick shot artists are gifted with. Windage and elevation allowances you use sound more like intuition and feel than physics.

                Decksniper


                • Decksniper
                  I use to shoot open sights with my air guns and .22 rimfire gun as a kid. I prefer a open sight but my eyes were having trouble using them.

                  With the HW30s sight I’m using it’s pretty much like it’s a dot sight. I get my front post and rear notch lined up and use the globe to center on the target. It’s really working well for me.

                  And no I didn’t want to scope the HW30s when I got it. I tryed my darndest not to scope it. But I just had to so I could see what it would do with a scope. But found out real quick that it was much more fun to shoot without the scope.

                  And you mention that “zone” that the trick shots are gifted with. Well I’m not meaning to brag. But yes that’s how I shot as a kid. My oldest daughter is like that too. She can hit like I don’t know what with the Wild Fire and the Daisy 74’s. Even throwing cans and plastic milk jugs up in the air. Reminds me of when I was a kid throwing the empty cardboard with tin lid and bottom empty oil cans in the air. We wouldn’t just try to hit them. We would see how long we could keep them in the air.



  7. B.B.,

    While looking through the British airgun magazine issues I downloaded, I ran across a subject I had missed in my prior readings. That subject is the “exit pupil”. No doubt I had seen it mentioned, but this article (which I am unable to find at the moment) addressed the issue of the dilation of the human pupil. He also addressed magnification as related to the Objective diameter.

    You and others have tried to help with the scope magnification issue before and you definitely helped me along. I did a search of your blog and you have made mention of the “exit pupil”, probably several times, although I found no specific article in my search (that doesn’t mean there is no such article).

    I set about finding out more and I want to share this article about the Object Lens. I will have to read this a few times to get the full benefit from it. I do know I have to think twice about getting that scope with the 100mm objective lens.

    https://www.targettamers.com/guides/rifle-scope-objective-lens-diameter/

    ~ken


  8. B.B.
    Great photos of the pellets, the Superdomes are the most wadcutter like of the three, could this be the difference in the twenty five yard groups? And what are your thoughts on the premiers preformance besting the JSB pellets? The biggest difference between the pellets is composition and length I would have given the longer, softer pellet the best shot at accuracy, wrong again. The pellets also have different waist profiles which is something I’ve never heard discussed.



    • Coduece
      I missed this part of your comment yesterday.

      But I use to measure the waist diameter of pellets at one point in time when I was over anal about my shooting. I weighed my pellets, measured over all legnth, skirt and head diameter and even skirt thickness.

      But what I found was that out of a tin of 500 pellets that only maybe 10 we’re pretty close to measuring the same on the dimensions I mentioned. Kind of found out that all that measuring was kind of over kill.

      When you can just pick up a tin of pellets and shoot directly from the tin. That’s when you found the right pellet for your gun.


  9. Are you saying that the BKL 2 piece mounts won’t slip under recoil ? Or did you use their 1 piece mount ?

    Are the 2 piece mounts also non-slipping on an R9 and RWS 34 ?



  10. Kenholmz

    I too have saved your posted site on “exit pupil” to my home page. There are other threads also (parallax for one) that are well written and in layman’s language on this site. Thanks for this very useful post.

    Decksniper


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