by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Vintage Daisy Number 25.
This report covers:
- Getting used to the Number 25
- Not a double feed
- Settling down
- The test
- First target
- Second target
- Third target
- Fourth target
- Conclusion
I’m skipping the velocity testing on this Daisy Number 25 pump gun because I already did it in Part 2 of the report on the Dust Devil BBs. The two BBs I will use today are the Daisy Premium Grade BB and the Dust Devil. The Daisy BB averaged 360 f.p.s. in the vintage Daisy 25 I’m testing and the Dust Devil averaged 365 f.p.s.. That’s really too close to call.
Getting used to the Number 25
It’s been some time since I shot this BB gun and I forgot a number of things. The first was that the 50-shot forced feed magazine always fires two BBs on the first shot. They aren’t a double feed. One is already in the breech when the shot tube is installed and the other loads when the gun is cocked.
On the first target I shot two BBs instead of just one. So I threw that target out of the test. After that, each time I loaded 6 BBs into the mag and put it back into the gun. Then I held the muzzle down and caught the one BB that rolled out. This is a common practice with Daisy’s forced feed mags. It isn’t universal, but it happens more often than not.
Not a double feed
Let me differentiate what I just described from a true double feed, for which which the Number 25 Daisy is also famous. The early shot tubes were made for lead BBs, and instead of a wire spring to hold the BB in the breech they used a constriction in the barrel. If steel BBs were then used in that tube they eventually ironed the constriction out and the gun would shoot two BBs every time the trigger was pulled.
Settling down
The first target with Daisy BBs was a throwaway because of the 2-BB shot, but I used that and the first Dust Devil target to settle down and become familiar with the gun. The trigger pull is single stage and very heavy, at around 12+ pounds. If I squeeze it slow it moves smoothly through its arc and I know about when the shot will fire. I had to get used to it.
I also noticed that the front sight has been bent slightly to the right. That can be seen through the peep sight. I’m holding the top of the front sight on the base of the bull.
I also noticed that the rear sight flops forward on each shot. So before I sight the rifle I push the rear sight back into position every time. It’s not unlike pushing a Unertl scope forward after every shot with a firearm.
The test
I shot from a seated position at 5 meters and rested the gun on a UTG monopod. I decided to shoot just 5 shots per target because this BB gun requires so much concentration. Because of that I shot two targets with each BB. That should give us an idea of how the Dust Devils compare to premium BBs.
The point of today’s report is twofold. First, I’m trying to establish how accurate this vintage BB gun is and second, I’m comparing Dust Devil BBs to conventional BBs.
First target
The first target was shot with 5 Daisy Premium Grade BBs. Four of the shots landed in a group measuring 0.874-inches between centers. The group is fairly well centered on the bull, too. The other shot unfortunately landed low and left, opening the group to 2.136-inches between centers.The entire group is ever-so-slightly left of the centerline.
Four Daisy BBs are is a nice 0.874-inch group that’s well-centered, but the other one opens the group to 2.136-inches.
Second target
Now I tried the Dust Devils for the first time. Five went into a group that measured 1.287-inches between centers. It’s also to the left of center.
The Daisy 25 put 5 Dust Devils in 1.287-inches at 5 meters.
Third target
This was the second group of five Daisy BBs, and it proved to be the best group of the test. Five BBs are in 0.935-inches and slightly left of center. Three BBs are in a tight little group between the other two BBs, but the paper is torn too much to measure it.
The second group of Daisy BBs was the best of the test. Five in 0.935-inches at 5 meters.
Fourth target
The second group of Dust Devils was similar to the last group of Daisys, in that 3 BBs went to the same place. This group measures 1.573-inches between centers.
The second group of Dust Devils measures 1.573-inches between centers.
Conclusion
This vintage Daisy 25 is about average in the accuracy department. It might do better if a larger BB was used.
Dust Devils seem to be about as good as regular premium BBs in this gun. They also fed through the magazine, and the 25 has the strongest follower spring I know of.
I had planned to begin the test of the Dust Devil BBs earlier this week, but the final SHOT Show report had to be published, so that report is still coming. But the Daisy 25 test was always planned for the Dust Devil, and I would say so far so good.
B.B.,
Let’s hear it for the Dust Devils. I was hoping they would do reasonably well, and I think you showed they do at least that. I imagine they will be expensive, but if I were to buy some (and I will, if they aren’t crazy expensive), I would only use them under certain indoor occasions.
Your comment about always having to flip the rear sight back up reminded me of the quirk with the Crosman M1 Carbine, that after cocking it each time, the barrel must be rotated counter-clockwise to realign the front sight.
O.K., Chris from England might rotate the barrel anti-clockwise.
Michael
Gah! Make that Chris Of England. My apologies, Chris.
Michael
Michael,
No problem, my friend.
The Dust Devil BBs will retail substantially less than Smart Shot BBs.
RPL
Aspenparis,
That is good to know. I really think you have a “hands down” winner here. Thanks for the info..
As a side:
I would be interested to know what you think of the effect of the “band” on your bb’s and any correlation to accuracy. In theory, the band could allow blow-by in one position, and offer a perfect seal in another position, depending on the bb’s orientation in the barrel. At any rate, your thoughts on the “band” would be of most interest. Then again,… it could just be a byproduct of the manufacturing process and “it is what it is”. Either way,.. I hope you chime in.
As a bit of a side note,… some of us here on the blog have found benefit to accuracy by rolling bb’s around in a bit of light oil (like on a sponge) and then using them. The theory,… being that the oil film adds a bit of a sealing factor, and maybe reduce friction. Both, in theory, would add to the fps,… in theory,… 😉
Chris
Chris USA,
It IS good to know they will be less than the Smart Shot.
Might it be that the band causes a bit of blow -by to impart spin on the BB? Gyroscopic action is generally a good thing, if I remember correctly, stabilizing the projectile.
On the other hand, if part of the band shears off, it could become a spit-ball!
Michael
Michael,
You may remember a few a weeks ago,.. we all had quite the theoretical discussion on “what if’s” concerning the Dust Devils. Vana 2 was going to get a ball and put a ring of tape around it to mimic the dimensions, 2-3″ range, and see if he could “float” it on the air using a shop compressor, to see if it exhibited any gyroscopic effect or rolled randomly.
I had a similar idea, but using the actual bb, and “floating” it in a clear tube similar in ID to the barrel. I went to the local pet shop yesterday and was going to pick up some stiff, clear tubing sticks and they never heard of it. I have seen it before, but it must have been in a bigger shop in a bigger city.
Finally, on shot/fired projectile recovery,… a piece of 4″ PVC packed tight with pillow stuffing works good. 3′ tube packed tight for 2′. Cap one end, loose,.. shoot, unload pillow fluff, recover pellet/bb. I have not done it, but seen it done and it works nice.
In the end, we are talking about bb’s here. Accuracy will never be optimal. If I ever get some, I will shoot some in my 499 which does super nice at 24′. All shots touch, if not stack,.. if I am on my game for the day. It has a Red Ryder spring in it which pushed the fps up another 150. So that will be interesting to see a stock 499 and a 499 shooting 150 fps faster.
All in all,… cool stuff. 🙂
Chris USA,
I have read about this one: 6 inch PVC with a cap on one end and a flange on the other. Use plywood with a hole cut for the tube opening as a “front” stop (as opposed to a back stop) by screwing it to the flange. It will also serve as a stand for the front of the trap. Have another piece for plywood on the back side to prop that up as well.
Fill the PVC with rubber mulch and one old towel in front, between the mulch and your target. Rubber mulch will hold up better than soft cotton or polyester fluff. Separate the BBs from the rubber mulch with a neodymium magnet wrapped in masking tape.
Michael
I almost forgot. I bought some of that aquarium tubing a few years ago. For working of hollow body guitars. Rewiring them is a chore because you only have access through narrow F holes and perhaps the small holes for pickups if you remove those (but that is another chore in itself).
Remove the knobs from the pot shafts, push a tube onto each pot shaft, unscrew it, gently allow the pot to go through the mounting hole and into the guitar body, etc. When it’s time to reassemble, use the tube to pull the pot back through the hole. I have used fishing line in the past, but for me the tubing works better.
I don’t know the ID of the tubing, but it is snug, and the pot shafts have a diameter between 5.95 mm and 6 mm (basically .235 of an inch). So my guess is the tubing has an ID of 5 mm.
Michael
Hey Chris,
I had issues logging in. For some reason I had to change my password.
Anyways, As soon as our new camera arrives, I will determine if the Dust Devil BBs do indeed spin.
Also, I did shoot the frangibles at high velocities (550 FPS on average) in a low light scenario and sparks from the barrel was evident.
RPL
Aspenparis,
That would be a super treat to see that. I do hope that you can see it clear to post a video link here when you get it done. The sparks are most interesting. I wonder if a traditional steel bb would exhibit sparks,.. fired at the same fps? What (appeared) to be sparks (upon impact) showed up in the video links you posted prior, but I was not sure. I do believe others commented the same.
All in all,… very interesting.
This observation was with a rifled barrel and I did notice sparks with traditional steel BBs as well.
FYI, even though these new frangible BBs are called Dust Devils, no dust is created when the BBs strike a hard object such a steel plate, just sand like particles.
Russell
RPL
Thanks for that info.
You are welcome!
RPL
RPL
Yep. 🙂
If I remember right there was some sort of paint or filler stick you could rub into engraving to highlight it. Anybody know or remember anything about it? My 25 is not highlighted.
When I was very young a friend had a 25 with real wood but I remember it being much heaver than todays version.
Was there one made so, or was it just the wood? I believe it was blued also, or what was left of it. It was his fathers.
Bob M
While I’m at it, just remembered that old 25 appeared to be much more powerful.
I know that Daisy gradually reduced the inside diameter of the air transfer tube in the 1894 to reduce power and perhaps the spring. Wonder if they powered back with this model as well?
Perhaps I was just too impressed shooting a BB rifle for the first time.
Bob M
Bob M,
Many folks believe, and I think they are probably correct, that the Plymouth, Michigan Daisys are slightly more powerful than corresponding models made in Rogers, Arkansas. Additionally, you might be right that Daisy gradually reduced power in some models over the 1970s or after. Daisy has been sued for injuries and is probably, pun intended, a bit gun shy.
On the other hand, I have a first-year Red Ryder (1941) that has recently been resealed, cleaned and lubed by a Daisy repair guy, and it shoots around 260 fps. The current one is probably about 25 percent hotter than that.
Michael
Michael,
The older 25s had a thicker wire in their mainspring. They were somewhat harder to cock, too.
My older ones would shoot 375 f.p.s. with steel (I substituted the shot tubes).
B.B.
B.B.,
I remember reading in one of your series on Red Ryders that the first variant of the 111-40, those with iron cocking levers, also were harder to cock than other Red Ryders. Mine is from 1941, and it does cock pretty hard. I bought it mostly to serve as a wall hanger and something to pick up and shoot a few times once a month or so. It is all-original but has a lot of patina on the metal and wood, which appeals to me much more than if it were in excellent condition. When I handle it, I feel almost as if I can sense every smile it ever bought to a kid’s face before it came into my hands.
Michael
Bob,
The 25s made before 1950 were made of heavier steel plate, I think. They did seem stouter. The one I am reviewing now (1952-56) feels like a current model;.
B.B.
How can you tell what age group they’re in approximately? I’ve got one that my grandfather had, serial number in the 242,000 range if I remember correctly.
Auronotcs,
No Daisy 25 of the past had a serial number. All they had were patent numbers. You tell the age by the characteristics of the gun. That would be the design, finish, they type of wood in the stock, even the number of grooves in the pump handle.
Daisy 25 collectors are a fanatical group and there is a collector publication that spells these things out. It’s not in publication anymore.
B.B.
BB
Glad to hear that. Was questioning my memory when I received mine. A lot less substantial.
Hi Bob, I hope it’s OK to post URLs here. We used to sell these in a gun shop I worked in many moons ago. It worked very well. https://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/engraving-tools-supplies/gold-silver-inlay-kits/gold-powder-sku319056001-6633-15868.aspx?cm_mmc=PPC-_-Itwine-_-Google-_-319-056-001&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6Ju_0q2H2QIVwVuGCh0vBAQFEAYYASABEgILIPD_BwE
Kevin.
Thanks not sure about chemicals on paint but found the Lacquer Stik there I was looking for.
Bob M
Something I’ve always respectfully wondered, BB, is why you love BB rifles so much.
I mean, firstly, they’re obviously so much less powerful than pellet rifles. And secondly (this is most likely due to a not-very-good-shooting Glock BB pistol I used to have when I was little) but don’t BB’s tend to not shoot as straight? For some reason, I always see it like that in my mind’s eye.
Chris,
As a kid my mother forbid me having a BB gun. That sparked my curiosity. I think it was the catylist.
B.B.
I have B.B.’s book “BB Guns Remembered”. His love for those little steel balls heartens back to fond memories of favorite guns.
/product/bb-guns-remembered-by-tom-gaylord-paperback?a=6653
HiveSeeker,
I wonder if that’s BB as a child, on the left-hand side.
It is not B.B. In the photo–but there’s an interesting story behind it!
Chris of E
Do I sense another person that likes accurate guns. 🙂
Gunfun1,
You do indeed, bro : )
Chris of E
🙂
BB,
It looks like you might be able to straighten that front sight blade up a little.
RR,
That’s what I was thinking.
B.B.
BB,
Am just catching up with your recent posts. Really enjoyed the series on the development of the .22lr cartridge and am looking forward to your piece on the .22 WMR. Could you please also do a post on the .17 rimfire cartridges sometime?
Do you plan to test the TR5 (new version of the IZH 61) that you spotted at the SHOT Show? The adjustable buttpad is a good idea, but why did they lose the open sights? Being a sub-7.5 J, short-range gun, it shouldn’t need a scope.
I have often thought to myself that Baikal would have a huge hit on their hands if they scaled up the IZH 61 to 16J/12 ft lbs or more. Think about it; a compact 5-shot repeater with sidelever cocking, fixed barrel (hammer-forged) accuracy, excellent trigger, all-weather, polymer stock, adjustable to fit shooters of all sizes, enough power for hunting/pest control or long range plinking, and no need for stirrup pumps or diving bottles!
Bob,
I had hoped to limit the rimfire series to just .22 to keep it contained. However, the .17 rimfires are interesting in their own way. Maybe they deserve a series of their own?
OF COURSE I will review the TR5! I think it’s a big deal! I might even share some stories I have about the old 61.
B.B.
BB
I second Bob on that. Yep you got to throw in the .17 rimfire. I like that step down case look. Plus the idea of them doing it to a rimfire round. Plus there are a few variations in case sizes. Cool little rounds.
BB,
That’s great! I’m eagerly awaiting both.
Regarding the TR5, it will come with sights….the samples shown at SHOT show were samples that were shipped direct to the show, they did not have the sights.
Will the sights be the same style as on the IZH 61, or something fancier? (e.g. changeable inserts or fibre optics)
Bob,
I know that the rear sight will be a peep. I don’t know what the front will be.
B.B.
BB,
Rear peep sight? I’m salivating already! Hopefully the front will be a tunnel with a selection of Weihrauch-style inserts.
Bob,
I want the .17 report (maybe later) too, but please include the .17 mach II. That’s the .22 LR version of the .17. I like the idea of it more then the .17 mag. It’s super fast and not as loud. It just didn’t seem to catch on. That’s a shame to me. For a “mag” the .17 hmr is so light.
Doc.
Doc
I have to ask now. Will the Mach ll chamber in a hmr gun? (I’m guessing not) And what grain bullet does it use. Definitely like the idea of the heavier bullet.
No, it’s a necked down 22lr, like the .17 mag is to the .22 mag. The .17 mach II is also usually 17 grains too. Also don’t forget there was (still is some places) a .17 Aguila too.
Doc
So is that .17 Mach ll what they call the .17 hmr2? Or is that another different .17 round?
Gunfun,
Yes.
one on the left is 17 hmr2 based off a 22lr. On the right is the 17 hmr based off the 22 mag
Doc
Thanks. Yep that’s what I was thinking of.
Doc,
The .17 mach II sounds like a great little round. I have never seen any rifles chambered for it at my local gunshops though. I really like the .17hmr, but it is very loud and the ammo ain’t cheap. In fact you can reload .223 rem for not much more. The problem is that all available .17hmr ammo at the moment is pretty much match grade and accordingly priced (similar cost as top grade .22lr ammo). Hornady, Remington or CCI should bring out a lesser grade, economy bulk pack of .17hmr for plinking, shorter-range hunting and the like. Given the intrinsic accuracy of the cartridge, even economy grade stuff would probably group under 2 inches at 100 yards. With cheaper ammo I could really see .17hmr taking off bigtime. I mean, think about it; how often would we shoot our .22lrs if the only ammo available to us was 50 rd boxes of Eley Match or Lapua X-act?
I may have missed it but how far away are the dust devils from being available? Also being new to the pcp world the fitting on my g7 hand pump seems stiff can I oil it with silicone oil and be safe I’ve read reviews of the bearings falling out
Buckaroo,
I think the Dust Devils are just awaiting packaging. Yes you should be able to oil the female fitting on your pump with high-flashpoint silicone oil. That shouldn’t affect the bearings.
B.B.
Buckaroo,
Is your female fitting stiff on more than one male fitting? I ask because the fill probe ( which had the male foster built in ) on one of my stormriders was hard to couple and uncouple from both my fill tank and G6 hand pump. It was oversized and I had to spin it in a drill motor and reduce its outside diameter with some fine sandpaper to get it to work smoothly. I have used hundreds of foster brand couplers in many different sizes in industrial pneumatic applications and have never had to lube one or had the balls fall out.
Halfstep it’s the filllrobe that came with the stormrider maybe I’m just paranoid of breaking it but thanks for the info this is my first pcp any advice is appreciated seems to work better if I hook it up then insert the fill probe in the gun the pump was stiff the first time I used it and I wore myself out but went back and read BBs article again and now pumping is much easier
Halfstep,
The foster fitting on the M-rod is the easiest, the Shoebox is a little harder and the Maximus is the hardest of all. All doable though without forcing anything, but there is some definite quality control issues going on in the world of fosters. The drill and some sanding would be my first course of action to fix, if ever needed. I do believe that B.B. had the same issue with a gun and ended up doing some sanding, but do not remember the model now. Of course, both the male and female fitting could be at fault, but the male is much easier to remedy.
Thanks BB and thank you to the rest of you for the welcome to the blog I’m still learning but that’s what makes this hobby so fun
Buckaroo
You won’t believe all the stuff that can go on with these air guns.
I get a kick out talking to people when I get the response from them. “You shoot bb guns”. And after a bit of explanation about (pellet) guns and the different types and what they are capable of. They then usually comment “wow I never even knew they was like that”. And of course I let them know about Pyramyd AIR and the blog. 🙂
Yeah, we had some construction workers here this past summer working on a screen room on the back of our house. They saw my target holder out back with a big hole in it and asked what I had been shooting. I told them I shot a .22 caliber airgun. I can not shoot firearms out back because even though there is a corn field behind me, there are houses 1/4 mile or so away and people could be walking out there. The airguns are ideal for target practice. Then they started talking about deer hunting. They were really surprised when I told them that my wife’s nephew shot a deer with a .50 caliber Dragon Claw airgun. I explained to them that there are airguns capable of 400 ft lbs of energy. They were really intrigued when I told them about using airbows and how accurate they were compared to crossbows. It’s really an education for a lot of folks.
Geo
Yep as big as air gunning is now days it seems that most people don’t even know about it.
BB, I enjoy reading all of your airgun & firearm blogs. If you have a way to test the Daisy VL .22 do you think there would be enough interest to include it in the .22 cartridge blog? Mike F.
Mjf3516,
I’ve always been curious of the Daisy case free VL 22 ammo. I think the ammo was ahead of it’s time. That said, if you read up on it, the accuracy was just ok. One belief is that when measured, the “power” is not always the same, causing a variance.
Doc
Mjf3516,
If I ever do test the VL it will be in a report by itself.
B.B.
A quick question for anyone who can answer it. Roughly how many pumps of a hand pump does it take to go from 1100 to 2000 psi in a 135 cc tank(a la the Maximus, Discovery, etc.)
Thanks very much in advance.
Michael
Michael
Roughly 50 pumps give or take a few.
Gunfun1,
Thanks!
Michael
Michael
No problem.
GF1,
Was going to do Crosman order but can find nothing on a 1399 hammer spring like you said you used in your Maximus. What am I looking for?
Chris
This will work it’s from a 2240. It’s part number 782-024.
Heck you got that 2240. You could take the spring out of it and try it. Also if you want you can put the Maximus spring in the 2240. It will shoot with more velocity. But you will use the Co2 up fast. Probably won’t get many shots per fill.
But here is the 1322 spring part number if you would rather get it. 781A051
Remember you need to set your regulator down to 800 psi for those springs to work. Also you might need to add some washers in the spring pocket in the striker/hammer to get your velocity where you want it. In other words shim. The spring a little tighter for more pressure on the spring.
GF1,
Thanks for the quick reply. Too late to order now, but will do one next Fri. most likely. You saying that 1399 spring really threw me. I plan to get an adjuster from a 2300, I believe.
Chris
The 1399 is the black skeleton stock.
I probably mentioned that talking about how I had the gun set up I’m thinking. Then you might of remembered the wrong number? Who knows.
Anyway you should take the one from your 2240 you have. It’s very simple to get the spring out of it.
Chris
Forgot. If you get the 2300 adjuster you need to order the spring and plunger for it too. The spring for the 2300 is a different length.
It shorter if I remember right. So you could cut a 2240 or 1322 spring to work. But I think you still need the plunger that pushes on the spring from the 2300.
GF1,
I will have to check , but the adjuster assy. is sold as an assy.. 2300-124 per Crosman parts chart. The way I figure it, it would be good for any spring in the Maximus. I figure that if I go 1322 spring in the Maximus,.. I can crank up the pressure with the adjuster. The Crosman Custom Shop 2240 too for that matter,.. (which was the original intent).
Maybe I need to order two?,…. Custom Shop 2240 Co2 tweaks and regulated Maximus tweaks.
Chris
Ok I couldn’t remember if they had the option available as a assembly or you had to buy individual parts.
And you know all you got to do to make a adjuster on a Maximus or Discovery is to use the end cap already on the gun.
The end cap is threaded. So just get a long enough Allen head bolt and screw it into the end cap from inside like where the spring rests up against it. Then the exsposed threads sticking out the back allows you to turn the screw in or out to adjust your spring pressure. Then you thread a nut onto the screw where it’s sticking out to lock it down. I done that on my first Discovery when I had it years ago. Works great. Oh and of course you may need to clip a few coils off the spring to get it to adjust how you want.
Ok Gunfun1 has gone mad again. And a couple things made this decision happen.
First here’s what is said for the Fortitude.
“Estimated in-stock date 03-29-18”
They had just recently moved it to the 16th of this month. Now pushed it back again.
Second today is the last day for the Pyramyd AIR 11 and 13% off deals.
And last reason. And this will give it away. I just watched American Air Gunner while I was eating lunch. Guess who they have on but The Dog Soldier and he’s hunting Rock Chuck’s from 15 to 50 yards with guess what. A Gauntlet. It was definitely performing nice. And I have been eyeballing this gun for multiple reasons. One in particular is the regulated bottle. It will work on two other guns I have. Plus the bottles from what I have seen seem to be less apt to develop leaks. Matter of fact I have not had any leaks or even slow leaks with bottles or tanks.
So I yep I’m taking the chance on the Gauntlet. I figured I already got my regulated Maximus that is doing exceptionally well. And maybe later on they will bring out a .25 caliber Fortitude if the .177 and .22 caliber versions turn out to be good for them. Then I will for sure get one. Told you ole Gunfun1 went mad again. 🙂
Well, Gunfun, I am afraid that you are not alone in your madness. I have several springers and I was also waiting for the Fortitude for my first PCP rifle but the delays are a bit concerning. Please let us know your impressions of the Umarex.
Henry
Henry
The Fortitude will be a good gun I believe. I really would like to get one in .177 caliber. I got a bunch of .177 guns but they are all more to the medium to lower power guns. I was looking for something with more power like the Fortitude, Marauder or Gauntlet.
I already have the Maximus that I got regulated and it’s .22. so that’s why I was looking for something in .177.
But like the Marauder, Fortitude and Gauntlet. They all make nice power in .177 and should be a nice velocity with my favorite heavier JSB 10.34 grain pellets I like. Plus they are all shrouded which will help to keep from spooking off the pests before they can be eliminated.
So yes I sure would of ordered a .177 Fortitude if it was in stock today. But if you want to try one of the Fortitudes I would wait it out. I think it would be very good first pcp.
And I for sure will give a report on the Gauntlet when I get it. And I do hope you get a PCP. I think you will be happy once you get your hands on one. They are nice to shoot.
GF1,
On the above (out of room), I was trying to avoid the “cobbled up” look,.. hence using bought parts.
And yes, if any adjuster is added to a gun without any, then you have just upped the cocked spring load. As would be the case of me adding one to the Maximus with a 1322 spring, where as you have just the 1322 spring. Same thing if I was to add an adjuster to a Custom Shop 2240. Or, if I was to add one to my stock Maximus with the stock spring.
As you know too from playing with spring lengths while tuning springers,.. just because you compress a spring more does not necessarily mean that it will produce any more power, past a certain point. The same theory would apply to the smaller hammer springs too, I would think.
Chris
From what I seen messing with the 1322/77’s, 2240’s and Discovery’s through out time. Is that the spring legnth and pressure of the hit on the striker makes a lot more difference than cutting coils on a spring gun. Remember with a spring gun your (compressing) air. With a striker your (knocking) something open. The striker hitting the valve is way more sensitive than the spring gun compressing air.
So after saying that. The only thing that I know is a concern on a striker spring is coil bind. If you get coil bind the gun won’t cock and the other thing is the bolt will get hard to pull at the end of the cocking stroke. Eventually leading to a broken bolt.
Does that sound like any pcp guns you have? How about the Maximus. Yep they got those springs right at coil bind. You’ll find once you get that 1322 spring or whatever one you get in your Maximus. It will be much more pleasant to cock.
Chris
Oh and that 2300 spring adjuster is a more or less a threaded bolt sticking out with a cap that screws on the thread.
So what I explained to do is not cobbling something up. All you would need was that end cap and it would look just like the 2300 parts.
GF1,
All good tips and advice. I do not find the Maximus bolt unpleasant to cock at all. If you remember, I had, as well as other people, found the bolt to be a bit loose and prone to jumping up when firing. A bit too sloppy, in other words. If you recall, I used a length of black gas line tubing over the bolt handle cut a bit long, to add some tension. It works beautifully and acts as a bit of a finger cushion as well. The Fortitude has a rear bolt and should not be an issue. They should fix the Maximus though. Some guns use a forwards sloping down slot that pushes the bolt forward and locking it at the same time with tension. That seems like a simple fix.
As for my Crosman order, I opened my credit card bill late Fri. and found a $400.00 fraudulent charge from a “construction” company in Indiana. So,… I’m doing the cancel and re-issue thing, 7-10 days, so the Crosman order (Custom Shop and parts) may be more like 2 weeks out. Bummer. You just never know anymore. When the biggest corporations with all their millions, still get hacked,… what chance does the little guy have,…
Chris
Yep I remember your u doing that to your Maximus. And you think it’s not bad now to cock now. Wait till you get that 1322 spring in it. Smooth as butter then. 🙂
And you know I had something similar happen about a month or so ago. Someone charged my bank debit card of like $570 dollars. They tryed to buy some concert tickets.
It did drop off and not go through though. But I just stoped that card and they issued me one at the bank the same day. Did you ask if they could do that?
Chris
Oh and take your spring out of your 2240 you have. Then you can get your Maximus returned now. You can always put the spring back in it when you make your Crosman order.
Hey guys, a debit card is much less secure than a credit card. If a credit card gets hacked, it’s card company (bank) that is responsible for the charges. If your debit card gets hacked, they can clean out your checking account. You can get a replacement credit card in a week or two but it can take months to get the money back from the checking account having been hacked. We rarely use the debit card to make purchases.
Often these credit card hacks come from outside our country. The bank told me that the hackers use a random number generator until they get a number that works. Then they make a couple very small purchases to confirm it. Then they make some big purchases until the card company shuts the card down. The card companies can not stop it and consider it a cost of doing business. But that is also the reason the interest rates are so high on them. Too bad.
Geo
Seems like nothing is safe now days
GunFun1,
Good choice, man. The Gauntlet looks mint.
Chris of E
Thanks. And I hope it works out. By that I mean I hope it’s accurate and don’t break. We’re going to find out though. 🙂
GF
I think its a great choice. Might sound odd but after seeing a takedown video on the Gauntlet, I thought of the AK and SKS guns. Quite crude but excellent function. Not that the Gauntlet is all that crude but the machining is not smooth where it doesn’t need to be. That’s the point I guess. The accuracy reports suggest its machined well enough where it matters. In particular It’s likely the barrels are good. And I think the overall design is very well thought out.
I look forward to hearing your reports.
As for me my tank was supposed to arrive yesterday. Still waiting.
Idaho
Still no tank! That would drive me crazy having to wait to shoot a gun.
And haven’t really watched any video’s on the Gauntlet. Did read some reviews though. From what I gather they say it’s accurate. But if it will hold up is what I’m thinking about. As it goes. Time will tell.
Gunfun I encounter some of the same responses especially oh airguns don’t last . My first airgun was a powerline 880 then I didn’t shoot a airgun again till 2 years ago now I have 6 like many my first attraction was a nitro piston 1200 fps I was like wow 22lr in a airgun man was I disappointed I still shoot it better than two years ago. Your right most people just don’t know how far the hobby has come the golden age as BB says
Buckaroo
Yep and the deeper you dig the more you will find how much a person can really get involved in to get these air guns to shoot how we want.
As Benji-Don has said something like this. I have a air gun modding addiction. Me too. Really bad at some times too. But hey it’s definitely fun stuff. 🙂
Thanks again for another great post. Your comment on the double feed answered I question I had on my repaired vintage Daisy Model 25 made in the 1930’s. After I had it repaired by a Daisy professional because it was a lead shot model that had been shot with steel bb, it would still do a double shoot of two bb on the first shooting and wondered if it was a problem from using the GAMO 0.177 diameter lead ball. As this only happened on the first shot and every shot thereafter was a single shot, then it makes sense now. My vintage Daisy Model 25 is not adjustable for windage , only elevation by rotating a headless screw to raise or lower the ramp like rear sight. It shoots straight so windage adjustment is not required. It is a shame that the new model Model 25 has so much plastic in the rear sight, it seems Daisy missed out by not using metal more like the vintage ones.
Waldorf1,
What that double shot is, is the end of the piston has a long air tube that enters the shot tube when it is seated and screwed down. That pushes one BB forward into the barrel. If you tip the barrel down it will roll out. When you cock the gun that tube is withdrawn and the next BB moves into the breech.
B.B.
I remember as a kid with my late-’50s era 25, I would press the 2nd crease of my index finger against the trigger to take up all the available slack, then using the pad of that finger as usual to get a very light release.
I also remember that my Red Ryder mv was slow enough that I could see the BB in flight, whereas my 25 was too fast. My modern RR seems to have the same mv as my modern 25.
The boy on the next farm down the road from ours convinced me I could increase the velocity of my RR by pouring gasoline down the barrel. It did, but then the gun died shortly after.
LOL – yeah, if we only knew then…. Say, what was the model of the gun BB did a blog on that he brought back to life just by giving it a good oiling? Suppose that would have worked?
Larry from Algona (you’re not far from me, right?)
Hi Larry, I suspect I would have had to replace the leather washer. Actually I’m on Maui. I’m just too lazy to change my login address. And from what I remember, BB has brought a number of airguns back from the dead by pouring Pellgun oil down their barrels. —Joe on Maui
Something I noticed on the Maximus and Fortitude as far as (barrel length) and (overall length)
Barrel length:
Max.: 26.25″
Fort.: 23.31″
Overall length:
Max.: 41.7″
Fort.: 42.6″
So while the Fortitude may use the same barrel making process, it is not (the) Maximus barrel. Just some FYI and an observation.
Chris
Maybe the butt of the stock is longer on one of the other too. That will affect overall length.
Chris
Never mind. I was thinking the Fortitude had a different stock than the Maximus.
I am using one of the new Model 25s and have a problem with wide left fliers, many times over 12″ while shooting a range of one garage length. I wonder if it is the barrel or the magnet that holds the BB, or the air tube hitting something with energetic cocking. Wish it would stop it.
Denis,
Welcome to the blog.
BBs are most affected by the last thing they touch before leaving the barrel. Since you have a problem that is recurring, it sounds like something is touching the BB at the muzzle. If so it’s probably on the right side.
B.B.
Thank you for the welcome. The barrel bushing was the first thing I thought of, hearing some may not of been centered. I have thought that if I could get a Lothar Walther barrel made for it might help. I also think it seems strange that the 25 action design is not copied by any other company. It is a great action shooter.