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CO2 Old versus new

Old versus new

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

A history of airguns

  • Wait
  • Old airguns
  • Pistols?
  • Broomhandle Mauser M712
  • Lookalikes
  • Get it?
  • The moral

Are old airguns better than new ones? “Yes!” says the guy who likes them for their wood and steel. He doesn’t want any plastic on his guns. It bothers him that the firearm handguns of today are made from as much plastic as steel.


Hold on, brother! That plastic Glock that offends you so much has been test-fired 30,000 shots without a major failure. The 1911 you love so dearly was praised in 1910 for shooting 6,000 shots  with the same results. The Glock endured 5 times the punishment as your venerable Browning design.

The Glock is also built for ease of manufacture. It’s so simple that a guy can build one in his workshop, starting with a plastic frame that’s 80 percent finished. All it takes is a file, a drill and some time. Oh, and a lot of money! When it’s finished he will have about as much tied up as if he had bought the gun over the counter. But it is possible.

To do the same thing with the 1911 is also possible, but it takes a lot more skill and knowledge of machining. And there are some machining operations that can’t be done with files (by most people — there are exceptions).

Old airguns

Enough with the firearms, BB. We want to talk about airguns!

So let’s talk about my favorite — the Diana 27. It’s made of wood and steel and it has a wonderful trigger. It’s not powerful, but out to 20 yards it’s a goodie.

Diana 27
The Diana 27 is an all-time favorite of mine.

But, have you forgotten about the Walther LGV Challenger I wrote about 5 years ago? It had a very nice trigger and was easy to cock — if not in the Diana 27 category. Yes, the stock is plastic but this is a rifle that put 10 under an inch at 50 yards — something the 27 can’t do.

Walther LGV Challenger
Walther’s LGV Challenger turned out to be a modern favorite.

Ironically, the Walther LGV line no longer seems to be available. If that’s true, they have shifted into the modern classic category.


“Okay,” you respond, “What about air pistols? The Webley Senior is al all-time classic. What is there today to compare with it?”

Webley Senior straight grip
Webley’s Senior straight grip pistol from before WW II is a real classic.

Webley Senior slant grip
The Webley Senior slant grip was made both before and after WW II.

“Got anything new like that?”

Broomhandle Mauser M712

What about the Umarex Broomhandle Mauser M712? What air pistol from the past offered real full auto?

Umarex Mauser M712
The Mauser M712 full-auto air pistol has no challenger from history.


“Okay, I get your point. But if you want to talk about lookalikes, what about the Crosman M1 Carbine? Everybody still raves about it.”

M1 Carbine
Crosman’s M1 Carbine BB gun is a top-flight lookalike airgun.

The Crosman M1 is a classic, no doubt. It looks very realistic next to the Diana Mauser 98K that you can buy today.

Mauser 98K
The Diana Mauser K98 air rifle is a lookalike that’s an instant classic!

The Mauser K98 is a modern replica airgun that’s made of real wood and steel. Lest we forget, this is still possible if it’s properly planned and executed. And, don’t forget the M1944 Mosin Nagant BB gun that sold until recently!

Mosin Nagant M1944
Though no longer available, the recent M1944 Mosin Nagant BB gun was one of the most realistic airguns ever made.

Get it?

My point is obvious, and I’m bludgeoning you with it. The “good old days” are not over. Yes, I miss the Diana model 50, but the TX200 Mark III is more than a replacement. Lament the passing of the Daystate Sportsman Mark II (because very few ever sold!) but bask in the glory of your Benjamin Marauder repeater that costs less in 2018 than the single shot Daystate cost 20 years earlier.

Not all of what’s available today is a classic, but that was true in 1953, too. You might miss the Sheridan Supergrade, but the Schimel was nothing to write home about. That’s the way it’s always been and probably always will be.

The Schimel AP22 was an early excursion into CO2 pistols. It had serious fabrication shortcomings.

The moral

Look around! Don’t write off everything just because it’s new and not older than you. I like old stuff just like the rest of you. Nothing prettier than a 1957 Chevy tudor, in my opinion. However, I stopped changing the oil in my cars every 2000 miles and getting a tuneup every 10,000 miles years ago. I just drive my car and hope I remember to change the oil once a year. The car will tell me the rest!

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

203 thoughts on “Old versus new”

    • OK, there have to be some real classic GM experts around here so is “Tudor” an official Chevrolet model name or a gearhead colloquialism? I ask because I know that “Tudor” was used by Ford and it seems unlikely that arch-rivals Ford and Chevrolet would use the same name but you do find a lot of hits when you search for that combination.

      Few people can rival my desire to live in the past but even I have to admit that not all that is old is gold and there are many things new that are wonderful. For example, the cataract surgery I just had done. A few minutes in an operating room, a few weeks of eye drop medication and I have clear, bright vision and can drive or fly without needing glasses – a big change for someone like me who has been as nearsighted as a mole since about the age of 12!

      I would consider a great modern alternative to the old Webley pistols to be the HW-75 and/or 45. All the heft, dense metal and quality and probably better accuracy too.

        • I seem to recall that in the 1930’s and on, Ford called their 4 door sedan the Fordor (get it???). While today’s vehicles are much safer, more economical, and have many more convenience options, they just don’t seem to have the glamor, pizzaz or soul of the cars from half a century ago. They just seem to all more or less look alike and remain the same year after year.

          My Colt 1911 seems to just fit in my hand perfectly and the original wood grips add “character”. It is a battle proven sidearm from combat in 2 World Wars which few weapons can match, with the exception of “Ma Douce” which is still in active service. While it’s capacity of 7 rounds is small by today’s standards, one hit from a .45 is better than 2 or 3 hits from a 9mm. Then again as with any firearm or airgun, it’s all about shot placement.

          I love my old Hakim which I scoped. It is one heavy sucker, but I have found it to be very accurate, especially if I support it on a shooting bench or my tripod. Don’t forget that a lot of our old collectibles are not as efficient as more modern equivalents, however they have sentimental value that far outweighs their dollar value in the material world. My Hakim was a gift from Tom and Edie, so I will cherish it forever.

          Bob in Texas

        • B.B.,. Old and New are all well and good but quality workmanship Trump’s most things in new or old. I spent a good three hours at the range with my .308 DAQ going out in 10 yrd increments. Managed to get to seventy shooting 10 cast 122 grn slugs on two fills at each distance. Learning the guns (I also have a 1 in 10 barrel) pattern which so far is three into MOA equivalent group and two that walk up and to the right as much as two more MOA! Love the wood and steel DAQ CLASSIC.even if it is new!

          But you should have fallen for a different ’57 Chevy…the NOMAD! Loved that car with all the Edilbrock gear!


          • Shootski
            The Nomad’s were cool. But back in the day you could buy performance parts right from the car dealership. That was before Edelbrock got his name. Vic Edelbrock got the aftermarket scene rolling back then along with Ed Iskenderian and of course Zora Arkus Duntov and Larry Shinoda and many more.

            Man you just don’t know. That’s what I ate drank and slept back when I was a kid and all the way through time. Alot of amazing story’s that you will never be able to search on your computer. Trust me. Been there done that. Was some good times.

            • GunFun 1,

              You are so right! Thanks for the correct spelling! I spelled it like it sounded to me
              I got away from American Iron when I got a little ’66 Alfa Romeo race car at an Estate auction that was street able…’cause the Inspection folks had no idea what rules applied. The bucket seats and five point seat belts disturbed some of the Dad’s of the girls I dated so much that they made me drive their cars with no seat belts and bench seats…go figure! Fun times for sure!


              • Shootski
                Only people that owned something that had a five point harness would understand what the dads were mad about.

                And I bet that was a fine little car to drive. I have done road racing too in the mid 80’s and early 90’s. Did SCCA Solo 2 racing. Had a 90 Camaro 1LE and before that a 72 fast back Cutlass 442 that had a 540 cubic bored and stroked 455 Olds engine. And that brings to mind another American icon. Joe Mondello. Mr Oldsmobile himself. He did so much for racing Oldsmobile it wasn’t funny. Just like Kenne Bell Buick. Yep had a couple Grand Nationals too.

                I could go on and on about the American racing heritage that it ain’t funny. Grew up in the mid 70’s with that stuff. It’s just what was happening at that time. On the street! Not only on the track.

    • Seantheaussie,

      You weren’t wrong Seantheaussie. Initially I had thought he meant two door but as my search revealed there was actually a Tudor model.


    • Seantheaussie
      I always like the 55 shoebox out of the 55, 56 and 57 Chevy. Although I would take a 57 Chevy business man’s coupe over them all.

      The 57 came with no back seat and led right to the trunk. That was one of the most sought after cars for the moonshiners in the 50’s. You should of seen what they did with them to hide the shine while they were run’n.

      • Here’s a picture of one.

        You could tell it was a business man’s coupe by the 55 Chevy (shoebox) chrome strip down the side. That is of course if someone didn’t remove it completely to hide the fact of what it was or make the car lighter. Remember they was carrying cases of shine that was heavy. So the lighter the better to outrun their adversary.

  1. B.B.

    LGV faded into modern classic territory in 5 years? I really thought it would have a 30 year product cycle. Shows you what I know. Hope the new Sig becomes one too.

    But stays around a little longer..


    • Yogi,

      The LGV died the death of a poor product that developed bad word-of-mouth online from everyday owners, regardless of how many glowing professional reviews could be found online. (Cherry-picking of review samples to be sent to pro reviewers, perhaps?)

      Bottom line: It didn’t sell well, and no product that doesn’t sell well stays on the market only a short time.


      • Michael,
        I predicted the demise of this rifle to one of Walther’s engineers in an email exchange some years ago. You never could know what fpe you would get when you order one and they made the 177 with higher power than the 22!! I asked what could be the technical reason, Walther dismissed my request with sarcastic “no reason”. It does not matter how great a manufacturer you are, if you produce an expensive piece of junk your name will not be able to sell it. Look at the FWB Sport. I drooled over that rifle but after poor reviews it just seemed to fade away.

        • Ton,

          “.177 in higher power than the .22”? How so? In .177 the fps wins out and in .22 the fpe wins out, with less fps. That is with the same power plant. I am not disagreeing with you or questioning your experience,… but rather just asking for clarification. Are you saying that they beefed up the power plant in the .177? Just curious.

          • Chris,
            Apparently they did beef up the power plant. I did enquirer as to why they would produce a 177 rifle with a higher FPE than the 22. They did not deny that they did, they just said that there was no reason. If I recall correctly the female engineer said that there was no technical reason.

            • Ton,

              I hate iyt when anyone who represents a company does a subpar job. I have done customer service, after training, and if the person doesn’t know who you are or how much expertise you have, there are preliminary questions to ask the customer to develop a feel for that.

              One of the things Umarex did tell me is that my LGV behaves normally for a 23 fpe springer (23fpe! In .177!).

              I picked it up and chronied it, and sure enough, 22-23 fpe. Tame it to 19, and it would automatically improve every shooting characteristic.


  2. BB,

    I guess the problem with the “new” LGV was they were not powerful enough for the American market. That with their price was their death knell. Most people did not grasp the refinements that went into one of those air rifles to achieve the results it could give. “Why should I pay that much for an air rifle when I can buy this one which looks almost like it and shoots at twice the speed for $100?” I deeply regret not being able to get my hands on one at the time. Perhaps I will stumble across one looking for a new home one day soon.

    I also would really like to get my hands on a Diana K98. The list goes on. I like old and new. Age is not a criteria for residence in RidgeRunner;s Home For Wayward Airguns.

    • RidgeRunner,

      Refinements? The Walther LGV was anything but refined.

      My Walther LGV, which Umarex USA service gave a clean bill of health after I sent it to them, is the single buzziest air rifle I have ever shot in my life. It makes my 12 year old Chinese sidelever feel like a TX by comparison. Umarex told me the buzzing and vibration was typical of the Walther LGV.

      Poor products, especially overpriced ones, die a swift death in a market of genuinely excellent affordable competing products.


    • I have a tuned Diana K98 .22 and it is a beautiful Rifle that shoots as good as it looks. I seldom shot it though because I fear the day I scratch it, and I have over 100 other airguns to shoot. My first car was a 1954 Chevy Wagon in 1971 that looked perfect original paint and interior and had low miles, but the straight 6 did burn some oil. I sold it for three times what I paid after owning it six months. (regrets) I then bought a “54 Dodge Two Door Royal with the Red Ram “Hemi”. I had to rebuild it before it ran, and the heads were warped so they had .06 milled off to get them flat. I had to run premium fuel but it was pretty fast (for a 2 speed auto trans).
      I like my old trucks now 69GMC and 72 Chevy

      • Dan,

        Since you are so afraid of scratching that K98 you might consider sending to RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns. I know there would be a room available for it. I would even evict a Diana 46E to make sure there was plenty of room for it.

        • I appreciate the generous offer (LOL) I actually don’t own any airguns including the K98 I won’t\don’t shoot. I just do take care of my stuff the best I can. I have toys from my childhood that are in great shape too. It is sad when nice things get messed up and also sad if they don’t get used.

          • Dan,

            Well, I thought I would make the offer. I am certain the K98 would enjoy The Home. My 1906 BSA comes down from over the fireplace and goes feral soda can hunting on a regular basis.

  3. B.B.,

    A nice article for reflection. I do not have anything old. I do not have any replicas. I do like modern plastics when used in an appropriate manner and in appropriate areas.

    It is interesting that some of the newer offerings that you mentioned are no longer offered. The Nagant for example. That was recent and I remember all of the excitement. If that trend were to continue with replica offerings, that may/will deter manufactures from offering them in the future. The LGV seemed like a no brainer. Both examples would seem to highlight the very fine, thin line, that air gun manufactures must apparently be walking in today’s modern market.

    The new, not yet released 1894 has my interest. But, I want the brass accents/trim/action and an octagonal barrel. Ability to scope too. Oh, and the shells? While nice, not very convenient. Other than that, they nailed it. You see?,.. it is people just like me that probably drive the early demise of fine replicas. But, that is what it is going to take to get (my) $200 for a bb rifle. That one, anyways.

    For me, parts availability and customer service add value. I will pay extra for that. I may never use it, but I want it available. For me, Crosman excels in that category,.. offering parts for both the new and the old. The ability to get aftermarket parts plays in as well. Either from the source or a specialty shop.

    As for old vs new? I guess that you just have to want the old. It could be the looks, it could be the nostalgia. Many things that hard to put a price tag on, though “they” do. The new? Well, there is no shortage of new these days, now is there? Choices, both new and old. I like choices. 😉

    Good Day to you and to all,…. Chris

      • Michael,

        Yes, I was off base on that one in retrospect. I had forgotten your experience. My LGU is super. And yes, you had better bring a quality product to the market at a good price in today’s market. If not, it will die a quick death. Kind of like, “step up,.. or step aside” I guess you could say.

        • Chris,

          Not a problem my friend. While I am not alone with that series, many reported a sweet shooter, the reason I bought one. It is an issue of consistent quality control.


    • Motorman
      58 Chevy’s are cool. And my dad had a 59 Biscayne. It was similar to this one. But bright red with the two tone white top. Had a 348, 4 speed.

      Yep love them old cars. I lost count of how many muscle cars I had over time. Definitely enjoyed owning them. And of course drag racing them. I owned show quality cars but mine were never trailer queens. I drove em like they were built for. Never could stand to see em sitting on a trailer looking pretty. Them cars were meant to run.

        • GF1,

          The newer one. What I wonder is why they do not make a replica of a ’68 Camaro with the benefits of new tech.? Yea, they did a nice job,… but come on!,…. let’s see more of the original.

          • Chris
            I actually don’t like how Chevy (tryed) to make the new Camaro’s look like the 69 Camaro.

            I think Ford did a better job with the new Mustang retro look. And Dodge with the Challenger’s compared to Chevy with the new Camaro.

            And in reality if someone said I could have any of the cars mentioned and shown I would pick them all.

            But that old Biscayne and me would sure have a blast together if it was mine. 😉

            • GF1,

              I say replica,… with emphasis on (replica). I do suppose that would drop the price of the “real thing” though. What are we worried about? A few mpg drop due to less aerodynamics? Ford, Dodge, Chevy,… they have all made a (very) nice “attempt” to re-capture the youth of the baby boomers.

              I say go all the way “old” on the outside and all the way “new” on the insides.

              Quite funny,… when looking at my latest purchase (’11 Rav 4), I told the salesman that if he put the Challenger body on a 4WD truck frame that I would take it.

              Well,… he did not know what to say to that. Actually,.. he looked quite confused.

              I live in the country. I need function,… but want style too. 🙂

              • Chris
                The new Dodge chargers have been all wheel drive for a long time now. The Challenger I haven’t checked.

                But yep that seems to be something that would (grab) someone’s attention if it was a option on cars.

                Notice I say (grab). 🙂

          • Mike
            You probably already read my response to Chris.

            But I see you already know me to well.

            Yep that old Biscayne would shure be nice sitting at a stop light with the engine thump’n away with every beat of the cam and loud exhaust waiting for the light to turn green. 🙂

              • Mike
                Or Deep Purple “Highway Star”.

                “Nobody gonna take my car
                I’m gonna race it to the ground
                Nobody gonna beat my car
                It’s gonna break the speed of sound
                Oooh it’s a killing machine
                It’s got everything
                Like a driving power big fat tires
                And everything
                I love it and I need it
                I bleed it
                Yeah it’s a wild hurricane
                Alright hold tight
                I’m a highway star
                Nobody gonna take my girl
                I’m gonna keep her to the end
                Nobody gonna have my girl
                She stays close on every bend
                Oooh she’s a killing machine
                She’s got everything
                Like a moving mouth body control
                And everything
                I love her I need her
                I seed her
                Yeah she turns me on
                Alright hold on tight
                I’m a highway star
                Nobody gonna take my head
                I got speed inside my brain
                Nobody gonna steal my head
                Now that I’m on the road again
                Oooh I’m in heaven again
                I’ve got everything
                Like a moving ground an open road
                And everything
                I love it and I need it
                I seed it
                Eight cylinders all mine
                Alright hold on tight
                I’m a highway star
                Nobody gonna take my car
                I’m gonna race it to the ground
                Nobody gonna beat my car
                It’s gonna break the speed of sound
                Oooh it’s a killing machine
                It’s got everything
                Like a driving power big fat tires
                And everything
                I love it and I need it
                I bleed it
                Yeah it’s a mad hurricane
                Alright hold on tight
                I’m a highway star
                I’m a highway star”

                And then while listening to the music the light turns green. Man sleep’n again at the lights. Ain’t gonna win that way. 😉

              • Mike
                Or Golden Earring “Radar Love”

                “I’ve been drivin’ all night, my hand’s wet on the wheel
                There’s a voice in my head that drives my heel
                It’s my baby callin’, says I need you here
                And it’s a half past four and I’m shiftin’ gear
                When she is lonely and the longing gets too much
                She sends a cable comin’ in from above
                Don’t need no phone at all
                We’ve got a thing that’s called radar love
                We’ve got a wave in the air, radar love
                The radio is playing some forgotten song
                Brenda Lee’s comin’ on strong
                The road has got me hypnotized
                And I’m speedin’ into a new sunrise
                When I get lonely and I’m sure I’ve had enough
                She sends her comfort comin’ in from above
                We don’t need no letter at all
                We’ve got a thing that’s called radar love
                We’ve got a light in the sky, radar love
                No more speed, I’m almost there
                Gotta keep cool now, gotta take care
                Last car to pass, here I go
                And the line of cars drove down real slow
                And the radio played that forgotten song
                Brenda Lee’s comin’ on strong
                And the newsman sang his same song
                Oh one more radar lover gone
                When I get lonely and I’m sure I’ve had enough
                She sends her comfort comin’ in from above
                We don’t need no letter at all
                We’ve got a thing that’s called radar love
                We’ve got a light in the sky
                We’ve got a thing that’s called radar love
                We’ve got a thing that’s called radar love”

      • I looooove flattened wings on cars And that vinyl top makes it all the more sweet.

        Also, the moment of the photo is classic, just as the rear end lowers and the front tires leave the ground.



        • Michael
          We’re do you see a vinyl top? That’s a hard top painted white.

          And if you notice Chevy put a lot of weight behind the rear wheels on purpose. That helped the weight transfer. Also if you ever see under the hood of the Biscayne you will see the engine is set back almost all the way behind the front wheels. A lot of people don’t even take that into consideration. But back then drag racing was the name of the game and the car makers were onto it. Why? Because if their cars was winning at the dragstrip and on the street. They was selling cars.

          • GF1,

            I looked again, and I can see I must have visually interpreted the trunck to be washed in glare, but I can see that the white top is the result of a two-tone paint scheme, not a vinyl top.

            As for the horizontal “attitude” of the car in that photo, I don’t know / can’t tell if the rear is leaded or not. I know when my dad was a teen and young adult (late ’40s and early -50s), leading hot cars was a common practice among his drag racing buddies. I can see clearly, however, that the front wheels are slightly off the pavement, a testament to the active thrust from the rear. The pedal has been depressed for sure. “Depressed? Naw, I just slammed it to the floorboards!” ;^D


            • Michael
              A couple tricks we do now days so the car appears stock looking but still get that extra weight transfer.

              First is we would take something like a 3″ diameter pvc pipe about 4′ long and fill it with concrete. Then secure it inside the back pumper with 2 U-bolts.

              The next trick is fill the gas tank with water. Nowdays the gas tank is not used. Instead there is a fuel cell in the trunk with a big electric fuel pump. So instead of wasting the opportunity to add some extra ballast we added water.

              And ole Gunfun1 has more tricks up his sleeve too. Can’t tell all my secrets though. 😉

  4. Interesting points.

    Guess that if you like replicas aesthetics takes precedence over functionality.

    In my books, functionality is far more important than aesthetics. I will pay extra money for something that is well designed and well made because I know it will last longer and work better than a cheap knock-off.

    Old vs new, I have both. Because of the improvements in technology I prefer modern designs. I admit that there are several oldies that I wish were reborn to current technology levels (at a reasonable price, I was very disappointed with Feinwerkbau and the ludicrous price they were asking for their Sport). As an example, I am thinking of putting a Maximus barrel on my Crosman 101. Something old and something new 🙂

    Like Chris says, I like choices.

    Happy Friday all!


  5. Love my 177 cal Diana 25 but at the same time, I wish I could find a synthetic stock for my Beeman R1 to take a few pounds off of it.

    Ridge Runner,
    my 12fpe R1 a joy to shoot and not hold sensitive at all. On the other hand, the Gamo silent cat that I picked up cheap is an Uber Magnum and very hold sensitive and tough to shoot with it’s super-hard action trigger (SHAT).

    • Halfstep,

      Have you read any of my posts regarding problems with my Urban’s magazine? I have had some issues with the pellet not being perfectly centered in the mag’s bore. When I push the bolt forward it meets resistance before loading the pellet. I have to wiggle the mag a little and then the pellet will load freely. I have included some photos of the magazine also. You can see the misalignment.


      • Geo,

        I have, but I’ve been with some buddies fishing in Georgia all week. I intend to look at my mags’ alignment and report back to you once I get my stuff unpacked and catch up on a few things here at home.


        • Hey Halfstep,

          Hope you had some luck and caught a lot of fish this week.

          Yeah, I’m about ready to open up the magazine to see if there is anything I can do to the stop to realign the rotary piece inside. Bore #1 is dead on, but #2 thru #10 are misaligned slightly clockwise. Just enough to cause a feed problem sometimes. I would have expected better from a $50 mag. Thanks for checking your mags out to see if there is any misalignment.


          • Geo,

            The weather wasn’t great, but we caught plenty of crappie. Eight of us each brought back 6 quart bags of fillets and that was after having 2 big fry ups while we were there.

            I looked at all three of my mags and they misalign the pellet as yours does on all but loading hole #1. I tried with all shapes of pellets and they all gave the same result. I’m not sure it is a defect though or the reason you are having trouble loading. If you can see into the loading hole, you should note that the bar that acts as a stop is perfectly flush with the wall of the chamber in the wheel on hole #1. If you rotate the wheel just a little that bar will reveal itself more and you’ll see that it doesn’t extend back all the way to the entrance of the loading port. That means only the head of the pellet will contact the stop, at first, and as the spring continues to rotate the wheel, some point on the waist also makes contact with the stop. That will naturally leave the pellet slightly canted and the skirt end will be more clockwised that the head end When I unloaded each mag I used a toothpick to push each pellet out and they all slide right on through the mag and I haven’t had any feeding difficulty with my gun. Perhaps you could try doing the same test. It may reveal that you spring is wound too tightly and is putting excessive side force on the pellet.

            If you can post which particular pellet (s) you are having trouble with I would be glad to try them in my mags.


            • Halfstep

              Glad you caught some fish. Sounds like you guys did pretty well 🙂

              It’s interesting that you are seeing the same exact mismatch in your Urban mags. I see what you mean about only the head of the pellet contacting the stop. And I did as you and used a toothpick to push each pellet out, and all slide through easily. So based on that and your findings, I would say the magazine is fine. I have only tried the JSB 18.13gr so far. They appear to shoot very well but I have to take it outside and see what they do at 25+ yards.

              GF1 suggested that I push the bolt forward slowly and possibly the pellet would center itself. I tried that and it seemed to help. I haven’t had a feeding problem with the last 3 or 4 mags.

              Okay, my curiosity got the best of me. I had to see what that magazine looks like inside. I took some photos of it but they are a little dark and it’s difficult to see the insides. It’s a very simple design. There is no adjustment to it and the spring will only work in one position. The empty mag dot has to be located so after the last pellet is loaded the dot shows in the small hole.

              When I reassembled the mag I thought it felt like it was catching on something. I took it apart again and what I found was the end of the spring was slightly higher than the rotating piece and it was rubbing against the metal cover. I could see on the cover where it had been rubbing. I used a diamond file and filed about .030″ off from the end of the spring (this is the small straight end that enters the little hole in the rotating piece to hold it). Then is cleared fine and I rubbed a thin layer of silicone grease on the cover. It’s very smooth now. It’s a little tricky getting the straight end of the spring into the little hole in the rotating piece but other than that it was simple to disassemble and reassemble. I may repost this on today’s blog so it’s seen by others who might benefit from what we have found. Thanks checking your mags and comparing them to mine. That made me believe that there magazine was not defective.


              • Geo,

                Well done! I hope that it fixes any issues. It just goes to show,… sometimes the most little things can make the biggest differences. Way to go on “getting in there”!!!!,… and coming up with a fix.

                • Chris USA

                  Thank you for the encouraging words. I think I am probably a lot like you and GF1 in that I am very mechanical and not afraid to delve into something to make it right. I’ve always been this way and most of the time I’m successful in the repair, be it autos, appliances, or whatever.

                  Yesterday I tore into our refrigerator because the night light stopped working. I pulled the panel from the front that houses the night light and ice dispenser. I thought the socket was bad but it turned out it only needed a little dielectic grease in the threads. That fixed the night light but then the ice dispenser wouldn’t dispense any ice cubes. Well, that could be tolerated. So I knew something had happened when I did the repair on the night light. I found the switch had fallen out of position. Then I saw that a small piece was missing that held the switch. I cut a piece off from a #8 finishing nail to replace the missing part. Put everything back together and now we have an ice dispenser, and a night light, again 🙂 Saved at least $100 on a service call.


              • Geo,

                Thanks for posting the picture. I meant to ask you to do that if you got into the guts of the thing but I forgot to. Those JSBs were one of the pellets that I tested the alignment with and is also ones that I have fired without any issues.

                I posted a photo on Fri. blog that you may want to look at. It just illustrates how this design would be expected to leave the pellet a little out of alignment.


  6. B.B.

    Nice article. I’m old fashioned, and I like wood, but your discussion of the Walther LGV may have created just a little space for plastic in my thinking.

    Thanks and best regards,


      • Hey Michael,

        Thanks for your comment. Actually, I’m not considering buying the Walther LGV – but I just might consider some of the newer ‘plastic’ models, such as the Gamo Urban, as opposed to the wood versions such as the Gamo Coyote or the BSA Buccaneer.


        • Dennis,

          The plastic on the LGV is of a high grade in my experience. It has a number of good qualities; it is just that shooting a pellet is not one of them.


  7. B.B.,

    I agree with almost all of your observations and sentiments. Right now there are more excellent air guns than at any other time, even eras that are consensus golden ages.

    However, my experience with the Walther LGV is that it is a classic, all right — a classic failure. The poor reputation it earned from numerous online forum complaints by dissatisfied owners is why it was a fly-by-night product a la the Wamo Kruger.


      • B.B.,

        With me you are something like 30-1 with products, big and small, you reviewed and I bought. And I love my TX 200 MKIII. It is all you have written about it, maybe even more. For example, you didn’t prepare me for the breathtaking bluing. ;^)

        Was the TX not the reader’s cup of tea (i.e. too heavy, slightly fiddly to load, etc.), or was it not right (i.e. noisy, vibrating, etc.)? There is, of course a difference.


  8. “The ‘good old days’ are not over.”

    Yes, B.B., for sure; I’m with you on that!
    I mean, I love my 1982 Tempest I inherited from my Dad; it’s old, cool, a family heirloom, and it shoots great.
    And I love my 40-year-old Sheridan, my first air rifle ever, also a gift from my Dad (it now gets a diet of JSBs).
    But my “B.B. Special,” my Diana-model-27-stand-in, my new .22 HW30S is equally cool and is a keeper.
    It’s lightweight, smooth-cocking, accurate, and a precision piece of engineering.
    And this new gun shares the most important property of the older guns: they are all a hoot to shoot! =D

    • THOSE are incredible modern classics! Actually, I think you have one of the best of each categories right there, a veritable Hall of Fame for excellence. Thanks!


    • Dave
      Now that old Sheridan reminds me of my old Benji 392 I had as a kid.

      And know what you mean. I still got my old Winchester 190 I got when I was a kid for Christmas when I was 11 years old. That gun will never go nowhere.

    • Dave
      I just noticed something on your .22 HW30s.

      You have the rear sight removed off the barrel breech block. And you have a rear sight mounted on the dovetail closer to your eye.

      What brand rear sight is that? And does it help your vision sighting with it instead of the factory rear sight?

  9. B.B.,

    I have an offer. What do you think of my doing a guest blog on dissecting an out-the-box buzzing Walther LGV to determine the cause of the buzzing and then addressing it? Umarex USA warranty service declined to open it up and actually claimed the buzzing was normal. I would like to see, document, and report on what species of bee has a hive in there.

    It would also have an angle of the first time an airgunner dives into a breakbarrel for the first time using the knowledge he has from reading this blog.

    Whaddya think?


    • Michael,

      This is dangerous ground. I know you have reasons not to like your rifle. Can you do this and remain entirely objective? I’m not questioning your integrity, just your anger.

      If the goal of such an endeavor is to produce a better air rifle in the end, then I think that is healthy. But if you stop short I don’t know.

      What would or could you do? I can think of several things, what comes to your mind? Or, would you like the blog readers to coach you as you proceed?


      • B.B., my 2 cents from the peanut gallery would be this:
        Forget Umarex entirely; think about “Joe Guy,” the man who somehow acquired a Walter LGV.
        Perhaps he got it at a gun show; perhaps he got it as a gift.
        The point is, he has it…it buzzes…and he wishes it did not.
        So, if Michael can address how Joe Guy (a man of modest mechanical abilities =>)
        can troubleshoot his Walther LGV to determine the cause of the buzzing and eliminate it,
        then I think that would be of interest to many airgunners,
        especially if the root cause appears to be something that might cause this buzzing
        (to some degree) to occur in other airguns. *shrugs* Just my 2 cents; thank you. =D

        • Michael

          My Diana RWS34 P was pretty smooth with no buzzing of the spring. But B.B. reviewed it and found the main spring to be broken. He graciously installed a Vortec Kit (donated by Vortek) in it and now it is smooth as butter. The cocking is smoother and the shot cycle is smoother as well. Very nice.


          • Geo,

            Depending on what Michael finds, I would seriously question the Umerex’s warranty service capabilities/knowledge at this point. Do they even know the difference between what a buzzing and non-buzzing springer is? What is their criteria? If it launches a pellet and punches paper,.. it is all good? Like “they” say,… you never know,.. until you know. Personally, I would like to get to the bottom of this mystery.

            • Chris USA

              Yes, I would be interested in knowing the root cause of the buzz as well. I think you and I both know the probable answer to the question though. I don’t know if a Vortec Kit is available for this airgun, but I would bet that a Kit would remedy the problem.

              Update – I went to urologist this week and to the ears, nose, throat specialist today. I am much improved and getting back to normal. First time I have smelled anything in years, and now I can actually taste my food…and my Guinness 🙂

              My new BKL 30mm offset scope rings arrived Wednesday and I have them mounted on my Urban. I still have to fine adjust the reticle and sight in again but these rings are nice and appear to do the job…good eye relief and clearance for the objective. I’ll post some pictures soon so you can see how the scope looks mounted on my Urban now. I think too, that because my vision requires a strong correction, that I need less than the 3″ eye relief.


              • Geo,

                Good to hear things are working out (health-wise). And on the Guinness,… yes! I have 3/6 in the fridge and savor them for special occasions. Not too bad with beef too,.. in a simmer,.. stew like application. In fact,.. I have 6# of Angus chuck roast for 4 quarts of beef stew on the agenda for tomorrow. Hand cut, all scratch, all the way. 8+ hours from start to finish.

                • Chris,

                  Hmmmm….sounds so good! And I kind of save mine for just once in a while too. I really like Guinness on draft best, or even Bud Light in a pinch. My favorite drafts are dark stouts and I am always comparing them to Guinness. We have several craft breweries in our area so testing is fun.


                • GF1,

                  Thanks, it sure seems good to be getting past the health issues.

                  I definitely will post some pictures of my Urban with the UTG 3-12x44SWAT compact scope mounted on it with the BKL offset rings. I’ll also repost the picture with the scope mounted with the UTG rings for comparison. And yes, I can get ideal eye relief with the BKL rings. I had to pay $49.95 for those babies though, but that seemed to be the best alternative without adding extra hardware, so worth the cost. The BKL rings are nice.


                  • George,

                    I’m sorry to hear abbout the illness and am glad you are on the mend.

                    With me it is usually something associated with my aging, but Friday I had a devastating migraine, and I have had them periodically my whole life. It pretty much put me in bed all weekend to entirely recover.

                    I, too am “Urban-curious.” Even if I never get one, they seem to be at the very least a three-run homer for Gamo. Very good for them. (And Urban owners.)


                    • Michael,

                      Thank you. I am doing much, much, better now. I have to go back to the urologist in two weeks and then maybe I can get rid of the self catheterizing totally. I am only having to self cath once a day now.

                      Yeah, someone here said that getting old is not for cowards. I think they’re right. I am 71 and other than the recent health issues, I’m in very good condition and fully capable of hand pumping my Urban with no problem. It’s a nice little workout 🙂

                      My daughter-in-law started having migraines a couple of years ago. They got so bad and frequent that she could no longer work. She has been to several specialists and hospitals and so far no one has come up with a remedy. It’s an awful thing to have to live with for anyone. We feel so bad for her…and my son.

                      I guess I just have bad luck when purchasing airguns. I seem to be the only one having issues with misfires and magazine loading hangs. If I can get these figured out, it’s a wonderful shooter. I love the lighter weight, shorter length, thumb hole stock, and the fantastic accuracy. If I can’t get the problems resolved, I will return it and get another one in a heart beat. Have a good one.


                  • Geo,

                    Sorry to hear about the problems. I believe it was Bette Davis who originally said, “Getting old ain’t for sissies.” I forget who said it, but “Getting old is better than the alternative.” And finally, it was my favorite character, Mr. Bernstein, in one of my favorite movies, Citizen Kane, who said, “Old age. It’s the only disease . . . you don’t look forward to being cured of.”

                    This won’t make you feel less bad, but it might help you feel less alone — I have had plenty of bad luck with air rifles others have mostly found to be wonderful. I am overall unimpressed with the Marauder, first and synthetic versions both. I have followed B.B.’s instructions for using the magazines and for fixing the broken ones, but I still have never been able to get them to work for me or been able to fix them when they inevitably break on me.

                    And then there is my Walther LGV, the exact opposite of what it was advertised and usually reviewed to be. Anyone (except for Umarex USA’s warranty service center) would deem my specific LGV to be a wreck out of the box, but I am the one who ended up with it when I ordered one.

                    You are not alone.


      • B.B.,

        What I have in mind is a three-parter, all “in-the-can” and delivered and approved before even the first installment is put up. That could change only if I had serious obstacles during it that required help from all here. But even if that were to happen, I could always simply post a question and solicit input before the first installment was posted and still finish them all before any go up.

        The angle would be working on a break-barrel for the first time using proven methods learned from this blog. It would not include a shooting test but would be about shooting behavior. No rants. The goal is a smooth shooting LGV.

        Content-wise, over three installments:

        1. A simple, objective description of the rifle, including chrony results (which have been quite hot and probably would be again), and a calm 8^) description of the buzzing/vibration problem, which is 180 degrees from what many reviewers and owners experienced with this model and which suggests there is something not right. I would like to include a good quality video or audio capture of the sound with simple link, if that were permissible.

        2. A photo-rich explanation / break-down of my disassembly process step-by-step a la those standard on this blog.

        (A worry of mine is removing the trigger group, albeit for no concrete reason. You looked at the pics and exploded diagram and said it is a standard type unit.)

        3. An photo-rich evaluation of what I find inside. Is something amiss? If so, what? If nothing is obvious, what combination of small things might have combined to produced the buzziness, etc? What small solutions could be applied to those several small things to smooth it out?

        4. A photo-rich explanation / description of what I do,in terms of maintenance, parts, repairs, lubrication, possible slight de-tuning, etc.

        5. Reassembly and re-chronying, and description of post-project shooting behavior, along with, I hope, video or audio recordings of the air rifle’s sound upon being fired.

        That’s what I was thinking. Three blog parts of roughly equal length woul consist of the five steps above distributed, in order, among them.


        • Michael,

          That sounds like a wonderful blog and would be of great interest. You may be a little optimistic regarding the length of your blog and it could very well be too long for a single blog. I can see this easily turning into several parts. I hope this is something you will be allowed to do. Good luck with the project. You know, the buzzing and vibration could turn out to be something as simple as replacing the main spring and lubrication.


          • Geo,

            I am thinking of three parts, and thank you for the encouraging words. The idea has been in my head to do that for some time now, but frankly I’m a bit nervous about it.


            • Michael,

              Go for it! Though I doubt with the photo rich plan you have that it can be presented in only three parts. From what I’ve been reading the Walther LGV works quite well when the power is limited to 12 fpe. One possible subset for the series ( 🙂 ) is for you to cut the spring a few coils at a time to determine what would be the best compromise in power and smoothness that can be achieved.


          • B.B.,

            If I turn it in to you all finished, it could quietly fade from memory if I get terminally stuck halfway in and abandon the idea! (LOL) It also would allay any concerns you would understandably have regarding my, uh, tone. :^)

            Like I said, if I get into it and have trouble getting out, I know there are many experts here to help if I ask for it in the comments. And in the report I could then write about the problem I encountered and how someone suggested something and how that suggestion helped me out. It’s the old, “If life gives you lemons, make a cold, tart, citrus beverage.” (Winky-face)

            I’ll let my wife know she will be in charge of photo-taking and Photoshop “clean-ups.” She has a small pro-lit photo studio that is big enough for small parts and close-ups.


    • Michael,

      I like the idea, (with B.B.’s caveats in mind). You have nothing to lose at this point. As long as you have a spring compressor? and an idea of what you are doing? and what you are after?,… I say go for it. There is aftermarket springs and always the Vortek kits, if they offer an LGV one. With inner and outer guide tubes on the kits, there should be 0% “twang”. My 2 cents. I have/had one in the TX200 that Coduece now has.

      • Chris,

        I have a well-executed home-made spring compressor, and I have read and reread every single springer-surgery report B.B. has ever done on this blog, with special attention to those focusing on smoothing out buzzy and/or vibrating power-plants, which is the problem with my LGV.

        Good idea about aftermarket kits and springs. I do not know of any for the LBV (or related LGU), but I intend to look. That is something I would strongly consider if I were to run into a spring replacement scenario. If a tune kit offers a lot more than just a spring for a price that is only slightly more than a spring alone . . .


        • Michael,

          The guides, inner and outer, on the Vortek kit will solve any twang issue. It is a drop in kit in all regards.

          Tune in a Tube is another option. The springs are heavier on the Vortek kits, but they have to be with the added drag of the guides. I know. I pulled the spring and measured them. Longer too, if I remember correctly. I would not recommend pulling them apart as the HO kit on the TX200 barely went back together. The 12 fpe kit came apart fine. Vortek would be my first choice, if they have one that is for an LGV. As for fps increase,… they said it would be little, if any, and it was. I saw maybe 20-30 increase without checking records,.. which are now in the possession of Coduece. (which we have not heard from in quite some time)

          It will be interesting to see what you can put together. It sounds as if you have your bases covered with the research and the photo lab.

        • Michael,

          The Vortek kit looks like a strike out! 🙁 I just checked. You could call and ask though. Maybe something would work, but I doubt it. Tune in a Tube would be my #2 go too,… aka Plan B.

          • Chris,

            I haven’t started yet, but from looking at online photos and diagrams, it seems that there is a plastic guide INSIDE the spring and a plastic top hat, but no outer spring guide.

            If I could just somehow get my hands on a tight-fitting outer spring guide ot go with the stock inner one, that would go a long way.


            • Michael,

              I assume you are talking about the stock LGV? For the TX200 (Vortek kit), there is an outer tube with a flange and an inner tube with a flange The inner goes in the outer. Between the inner and outer, (inside), there is a “squishy” washer that resembles a garden hose washer. Then the spring. The fixed latch rod on the piston goes through everything when cocked. Remember too I said the spring was heavier in the kit. If you go too tight on a set up, it will slow things down. I think that is why the had the spring heavier in the kit.

              Check out Vortek site and see what they have. Based on how the LGV is made, you might get some ideas at least. I would try Tune in a Tube first though.

              • Chris,

                Yes, the stock, recent LGV. By “inner guide” I mean it is tight inside the spring, anchored by a flange inside the trigger unit. There is no outer guide. I have been thinking that by having two rear spring guides, one on the outside of the spring and the one on the inside, that spring would not dare mess around! :^)

                The LGV has a circular piston arm catch for the sear similar to the TX, and it has two O rings on the piston to separate it from the compression chamber while ensuring there is a good seal.

                I do intend to try Tune in a Tube first, before I do anything else. If it does the trick, well, then the trick is done, it will end up being a one-part guest report, and I will be very happy.


                  • B.B.,

                    It would be a very short one-parter if Tune in a Tube worked well enough through the cocking slot to make the air rifle smooth. But is that result realistic? Or would serious smoothing require that it be applied to a removed spring?

                    I’ve studied many photos of the LGV innards, and for the first time the disassembly seems straightforward to me. The only time to get nervous is removing a preloaded spring with my spring compressor.


                    • Michael,

                      If you do a diligent job of applying the TIAT through the mainspring, then, yes, it is possible and also realistic. Taking the action out of the stock will improve your chances.

                      I have now done this so many times that it’s a forgone conclusion. If you try it I think you will want to become the midwest representative of the product.


  10. BB,
    You could coach him. I don’t like Walthers myself I have 2 lemons. But I am an open minded guy. If Michael fixes the rifle it would be a slap to Walther’s/Umerex’s face. If he does not cure the problem it would still be bad for them. Win win. Maybe Lose lose lol.

    • Ton,

      As much as I have worked myself up towards Umarex, that would be wrong for this place and I wouldn’t do that, even figuratively. A big reason for doing a guest blog on it would be to emotionally “get over it, finally” by making it a good, even fine, shooter.

      And going there not figuratively would be a terrible idea that I would NEVER consider. I am a fan of yours in part because you remind me of me 20 years ago: 6 foot, 56 inch barrel-shaped chest, and power-lifting a combined 1100 (perhaps a bit more) pounds without any artificial inspiration.


  11. I am amazed at the turn this took on Walther LGV rifles. I have the Terrus .22, bought largely on the review BB did on it. I got a used one off of yellow, cheap. Couldn’t hit anything with it, it strung vertically something fierce. I noted that the breech seal stood way proud of the breech block, approximately .035″. I called and asked, and was sent a pkg of new seals “on the house”, it but made no difference. When I emailed and asked about the situation I was offered a good will repair for the cost of shipping to them. The solution was a new in the box rifle return shipped to me. I was pretty pleased until I scoped the rifle. The rifle B.B. tested had no droop. This rifle should have a picture in the dictionary next the definition of barrel droop. It droops to the tune of 29″ at 20 yards. I dealt with it with the FX no limits adjustable mounts, which are a questionable choice for a springer (unbeknownst to me). I had to clean them with brake cleaner, and use loc-tite on all surfaces of the adjustable portion, to stop slip, not on the dove tail, but the vertical adjustment. It is quite enjoyable to shoot, easily dinging 2″ targets at 42 yards, and I hope the loc-tite holds till I find a new solution. Until today, I was interested in an LGV, based on tests, since the Terrus is so nicely accurate, less the annoyance of the droop. If I find someone low balling a Parrus, I my try a .22 cal Parrus, just to see what its like.

    • MMCM13,

      My first thought is that if you have a Terrus and like it, an LGV would be redundant, unless it were in a different caliber. The synthetic stocked LGV is similar in power to the Terrus but weighs at least a full pound more. Scoped, you would be looking at roughly 10 pounds.

      By the way, when I read 29″ at 20 yards, I thought I had misread. That seems an a LOT to me. Wow. The important part is that you found a way to correct it, though.


  12. I enjoy seeing history in pictures so this was enjoyable.

    My taste does not run to replicas. I have more appreciation for something designed not to look like something else, but to function. I like true originals, where there may be an attempt to incorporate beauty when it does not interfere with function. I believe that to a large degree, great proven performance has a way of winning over the eye to where it can actually redefine beauty. Because the eye takes in an image, but the brain sees the whole package.

    That said some designs just exude beauty independent of function. When a lineup of mid 50s Chevies is before my eyes, I will love them all, and linger on the 55.

    • Idaho
      Me too.
      I always wanted a 55 Chevy. The high school counselor drove one everyday to school in 78. I always wanted that car. It was a faded powder blue with a white top. And a sedan at that. I always liked that full frame around the window instead of the coupe open window cars. They just seemed more solid to me. And it was untouched. Still a straight 6 and 3 on the tree.

      But anyway never did get one. Still want one. But that probably won’t happen nowdays with the cost of them old cars. Of course that will all change drastically if I ever win the lottery. 🙂

      At least it’s something to dream and keep the spirit alive. Ya know what I mean.

      At least old air guns are cheaper than them old cars nowdays. 🙂

        • Idaho
          I like the old Darts. My cousin had one with a 383, 4 speed and 3.73 gears. Good running cars. And the last muscle car I had was about 9 years ago. It was a little 62 valiant no front bumper and cheater slicks on the back. It had the drivetrain from a 70 Demon. Basically a 12.1 compression 340 and a 3500 stall converter and 411 posi. Had a 150 shot of nitrous on it too. It ran low 11’s at a 127 in the quarter mile. I’ll have to find a picture in a bit and post it.

          I do miss cruz’n and going to the dragstrip. I would like to get me something again. Heck wouldn’t care what I got. I wasn’t a brand loyal person I had all different brands. As long as it was a muscle car and it ran I was happy. 🙂

          • GF

            Cool Valiant.
            I’ve seen some with turbocharged slants running very low times. They use the stock 904, high ratio weak diff and it all survived due to turbo lag.

            If you have not checked out the 2018 Challenger Demon take a look. It is BAD.

            My Dart is getting a built modern 360 and 4 speed.

              • Idaho,

                The memories you brought back with that photo! My dad had a cherry, low miles, stock, four door in tan. It was a great car — until a former student of his threw a Molotov cocktail into it in the middle of a late 1970s night and burned it from the inside – out. :^(

                “Only the good die young.”


            • Idaho
              Noth’n like 840 hp that makes it all to the ground.

              And yep had a 70 Duster that had a slant six and 3 on the tree. I put a 4 barrel intake on it with a AFB Carter and a aftermarket cam and headers. The car came with a 3.90 posi even. Had that car back in the mid 80’s. But it ran usually 13.0’s but would hit a occasional 12.90 definitely a unique sounding car when it idled.

              And yep them 360’s are good engines too. The 340’s revved a little higher than the 360’s but both were nice little engines. They definitely would hold their own.

              I’m going to have to get something again. I just might get a little s10 Chevy pickup from my buddy and drop a small block Chevy in it. Its a clean little pickup and he only wants 400 bucks for it. Of course no muscle car but they use to run too. Yep had one of them too in the past with a 383 stroker small block Chevy and turbo 350 with a 3000 stall and 3.55 gears. Had tall 30″ tires on it so it had a real good roll out off the line. It go through the lights in the middle of 3rd gear on the engine. And on the bottle it crossed the line right at almost redline of 6500 rpm. It definitely was a good little combination. So who knows. Maybe that’s what will be next. 🙂

        • And as I said I had late models as well as early models I drag raced.

          I had one of the first Dodge Neon SRT-4’s when they were released. It’s best time was 12.50’s at a 112 mph. I later traded it for a black one and I built the engine in it. It was running 11.65’s at 129 mph and still was getting 30 mpg. Can’t find a picture of it though. Maybe got it with some other pictures don’t know. Here’s the first one I had.

  13. Gunfun1,

    When I was teenager back in the late 50s, I went with my dad to pull a car out of the ditch. My dad owned a auto repair shot for about 15 years, from the time I about 4 until I graduated high school. I worked in my dad’s shop after school from when I was about 13. I learned a lot about cars, fixing and maintaining them. To get back to my story, my dad had a nice wrecker (tow truck) and we went to get the car. It was a gorgeaus ’55 Chevy and the guy had gone down into a deep ravine and the car was resting against a guy wire from a power pole. I steered the ’55 out while my dad ran the wrench. When we got up out of the ravine the brakes on the ’55 were out. I drove it back to our shop without any brakes, except the emergency brake. The ’55 was all white with a blue interior. It had a sweet little 265 cubic inch “V” eight and a power glide transmission. It was beautiful and I would have loved to have it, but I could no way afford anything like that. I still to this day remember that little ’55 though.


    • Geo
      I drove that 72 stroker engine olds home the same way.

      Also done it with a big cam high compression small block Chevy 4 speed Nova. In town from stop sign to stop sign every block.

      All I can say is if you can drive a car like that you can drive anything. That Nova would pull from a stop sign in 3rd gear then start burning the tires out about a 100 feet. When the cam came in it was all or nothing. You might as well forgot about using the gas pedal. It either tryed to stall or jump up and want to run.

      And what’s crazy is those were my daily drivers back then. And I live in the Midwest. Imagine that in the winter months.

    • Geo
      Forgot to mention the reason for the 3rd gear was the 4 speed tranny got stuck in 3rd gear one time. That’s how u know what it would do taking off in 3rd gear from stop sign to stop sign. I would take off and once the car would stop lugging the engine and start burning the tires I would have to push in and cost the rest of the way to the next stop sign. Yep the good ole days. 🙂

  14. BB
    I often wonder if my comments sometimes lead to a blog topic? For instance I recently mentioned something about the comparison of airguns to real steel and it involved the materials used as well as realism. Then I had the question about what the Crosman DPMS SBR receiver was made of.

    I guess in the back of my mind I considered an airgun / replica made of metal to be given a bit more attention to quality than one of plastic, along with a higher price. And the same for the use of real wood. That said, I think the term plastic is being used to describe the use of anything other than metal and wood and not very complementary or descriptive of the actual material used in todays guns. Plastic has come a long way.

    There is toy plastic and then there is fiber impregnated polymers that outperform wood and even metal in every way. The only way I could tell what the MTR77 (DPMS) was made of was to tap it and even then I wasn’t positive. Really outstanding material with excellent finish and detailing.
    The 1944 Mosin Nagant has an entirely different type of plastic, in my opinion?, that totally looks and almost feels like real wood?
    I guess it all comes down to attention to details and finish regardless of what type plastic is used. Gone are the days of the wavy shinny stuff, except for water guns and toys perhaps.

    In the 60’s I always thought a car with posts between the windows was a ‘sedan’. A, B, or C posts and one without was a ‘hardtop’.
    Turns out a sedan has back seats. A coupe had two and hard tops were removable items. Adding a back seat early on probably included the use of a post for support and window sealing so they usually went together and ‘soft-top’ sports cars had removable ‘hardtops’ for use in bad and cold weather especially with the invention of fiberglass.
    So was a car with a rear seat and non removable hard top a sedan? No, just custom models using old terms. Hard tops had no pillars and sometimes used chrome trim around the base to look like they were removable. A hardtop ‘convertible’ used vinyl covering with seams to look like cloth. Turned out to be a bad move for rust prevention. In both types they often used smaller rear windows to accentuate the convertible or removable look.
    Can’t imagine why they used the term Tudor unless they just wanted to identify the car as a more substantial two door rear seat model sedan or was it the salesman type sleep in with no back seat?
    Bob M

    • Bob
      That was a business man’s coupe with no back seat. That was so they could throw a few different model vacuum cleaners in the back and drive around and try to sell them door to door. You remember those days.

      And yep on the hard top and post cars. Like I mentioned before I’ll take a post car over a hard top car any day. A much more quieter driving car with a post car. Heck look at most everything today. They are all post cars with a frame around the window.

      • GF1 I always thought the frame was for added security. A friend of mine had a Chevelle and when he would lock his keys in it, which he did more than twice, he could lift the lock knob with a pocket comb.

        • Gerald
          For sure that also. Another reason I liked the post cars.

          One of my buddies had a 67 Chevelle post car. That’s what we looked for back then when we was out muscle car hunting. I had in 79 a 69 Chevelle SS with a 396 4 speed, blue with black stripes and it was a post car which was kind of rare for the SS models. Most where hard top coupes. Matter of fact I had a black 68 W31 Ram Rod 350 4 spd Cutlass that was a post car back in the day too. To me anyway I always liked that look better than the coupes.

          • GF1 when I was in the military a friend there had an Old’s Cutlass. What I remember best of that car was the swivel bucket seats. You could turn the passenger seat 180 with the door open. Also he ran L50-15,s out back.

            • Gerald
              If I’m remembering right those were the 73-76 models. That was when they went back to the big body style. And just maybe I think some 78 442’s got those swivel buckets too. The Chevy Monte Carlo and Pontiac LeMans got those also those years as well as the 73-76 Buick Century.

              The good old poli-glass Letter tires. The big ole N 50’s is what I remember too. They were big fat tires. But it still took someone that new how to drive to get that poli-glass tire to hook up.

              Yep I had those N 50’s on a 72 COPO big block Camaro. Basically a special order car that usually the GM executives ordered with special codes to get a factory hot rod that suited their taste. And it wasn’t just Camaro’s. A few made it into the hands of the general public. And those are high dollar cars now days.

              • GF1,

                That is what bums me out about the new “replicas”,….. you can’t put 50’s on them and jack them up. Well, maybe you can, but it ain’t just as simple as just doing it. I asked a guy a guy at work about the new Camaro (he has one) and he said “nope”. Of course,… like air guns,… anything is possible! 😉 Where there is a will,… there is a way.

                • Chris
                  You crack me up. You must not keep up with the new cars.

                  They have bigger tires fitting under the fenders now days without jacking them up.

                  And you know back in the day we always knew what car we was going to beat even before we heard what they sounded like. First sign was a jacked up shackled or air shocks on the car. Think about it. What do you do to weight placement when you jack the back end up. All on the nose of the car. Yep that works real good for weight teansfer. How many cars do you see now days jacked sky high in the rear. Hmm how about that. A perfect name for those cars. “All jacked up.”. 😉

                  • GF1,

                    Well, unlike you,.. I never had one. So,.. I guess that is just one “itch” I still need to “scratch”,… as the saying goes. I did grow up around plenty. We are very close the same age if not mistaken, so I can relate to a lot of what you talk about when it comes hot rods.

                    On the new ones,.. I have heard reports that depending on the “setting selection”,.. that they can be down right scary with excess power,…. like that is supposed to a bad thing???? 😉

                    • Chris
                      The thing is I didn’t grow up close to it. I was in the middle of it like I am with airguns now. 😉

                      The cars now days do indeed perform with just a flip of a switch. That is one thing that has helped and hurt at the same time. They run nowdays. But can be a nightmare when something goes wrong.

                      Back in the old days all you needed was about 5 wrenches a couple screwdrivers and pliers and you could fix just about anything on those old cars.

  15. Hey BB. Or Anyone who knows,

    I was wondering if the Marauder could do better or if this is as good as can do? This is eight shot group at 30yds. Was going to be a ten shot group but outer ring broke so last two shots went into a small bottle at 39 yards. Anyway, just want to know if it is worth trying to tune the Marauder to shoot tighter groups.

    • Airfun,

      I have a .25 M-rod.. I would say that is a (very) good 8 shot group for 39 yards. You can look back at M-rod articles that B.B. has done as a comparison. His will be 25,50 and 100 yard test though. Type Marauder in the search box. You did not say what caliber you have.

      • Chris USA,

        Thanks, sorry bout that. The group is at 30 yards thou, not 39 using a .22 M-rod. I have gone through those articles multiple times before purchasing my M-rod. They show that the M-rod does shoot. However. What I am after is the upper limit. The M-rod for me is my first step into pcp’s without falling into the deep end with FX. Not willing to spend that unless I know for sure that I know what I’m doing.

        Thanks again for the complement.

        • Airfun,

          Ok 30. My mistake. Was only 1/2 through my first cup of coffee. 😉 Tune? The hammer and striker will play into how much air you will be pushing. Or wasting. The air port will dial the flow down. In my opinion, if you want to see if a pellet will perform better a little slower, or a little faster, that is what I would play with first. 2 set screws if I recall, one atop the other. The top is a locker. There is nothing more to be gained from more than 4 turns out (from fully seated). I am pretty sure I had to buy that wrench as it was an odd size allan.

          A chrony and knowing your shot curve will help too. I offer this as B.B. was testing some large bores and found that a certain pellet/bullet liked only 1 spot in the power range. One might like a 3 setting and another may like the 5 setting (to get it to be accurate).

          The possibilities are near endless what you can do. Keep good notes whatever you do or you will be in deep doo-doo before you know it.

          • Chris,

            Thanks. Only plan to tweak the striker if I find my spread to be to large. Still waiting for my chronograph hopefully soon. Last update was arrival by the 14th. Then I get to find out what exactly my gun is doing, instead of hot and cold-ing the mettering screw.
            Also, pelletgage! On the 14th. Hopefully.

            • Airfun,

              🙂 Sounds to me like you have a solid plan! Keep us posted. We have not had any good discussions on M-rod tuning in awhile, so it would be a nice refresher on the topic. Best wishes.

      • BB,

        I’m pretty happy with it. But, 48 is the furthest i can go out from FFP in back yard. So, next option is smaller targets.

        Also. I was wondering if there is such a thing as “lead equilibrium”? And just i case I am making up words what I mean is, Can you leave a slight build up of lead in the barrel that is just the right amount to contribute to accuracy. Slightly tightening the fit of the barrel to the pellet by leaving deposits of lead? Or is this just lead fouling, and not something you would want?

        Wow. Not sure if any of these words properly describe what is on my mind right now.


        • Airfun,

          Some people never clean. Some do on a regular basis. Some only clean when the prior accuracy has dropped off. GF1 uses some silicone chamber oil on the pellets and runs a few of those down the barrel (shoots them). He swears by it.

          Some notes from BB indicate that at 850 fps, you are pushing the limit on periodic cleaning. At 950 fps it is about a sure bet. The .22 is rated at 1000 fps on the PA site.

          GF1 also recommends shooting something like 50 pellets when switching brands to get the barrel “seasoned” to the new pellet. That kind of falls in line with what you are asking.

          I do believe that the antimony (sp?) like in Crosman brands, will lead a barrel quicker that pure lead pellets. I never use them for that reason.

          None of that is hard and fast advice, but rather just some things that I have picked up along the way.

    • Airgun,

      That is a good group for 30 yards. I would recommend trying ten different pellets with 10 shot groups at 48 yards with good documentation. That way you will have a good baseline before you start turning knobs.

      Follow Chris’s advice on the documenting the settings of the adjustment screws. I read the manual quite a few times before it made sense but I can be a little slow sometimes.

      I would say you got one of the new improved barrels, is your Marauder new?

      You had to be lucky to get a .22 barrel that good with the old ones. Mine would shoot up to and over 4 inch groups at 30 yards with some pellets.

      On a side note: I hope Crosman does not have a warehouse full of the old Marauder barrels they are putting in the Fortitude.

      Good luck with your Marauder, you are off to a great start.


      • Don,

        My Marauder has model number as PB2264. I really don’t know how to telk a gen1 from a gen2. But only got it about three weeks ago. A sporting goods special ordered two when they had only one buyer. I ended up getting the second one when the buyers friend never bought the second one.

        Would like to try 10 different pellets, but only two brands here where I live crosman, and Daisy. Experience with daisy .177 tells me to never buy them.

        I do plan to document what changes I make with the striker. The same way I document adjustments I make on my scope. But I do not plan to make anymore adjustments till I see a group with sorted pellets.

        Sounds like you plan to get a Fortitude. I’m hoping for an Armada. And someday an FX. But those days seem far far away.


        • Airfun,

          Do yourself a (huge) favor and get some JSB 15.89 and 18.13 grains. I would never consider shooting Daisy and Crosman’s in a M-rod, ever. Your Pellet Gage should prove interesting with the Daisy’s and Crosman’s. A grain scale is nice too since you are pursuing the ultimate group with your testing and research. Just some more FYI.

            • Airfun
              Do like Chris said. Get some of the 15 and 18 grain JSB’s.

              And can’t get none there? Well why not. And lucky for you that you can get them right here at Pyramyd AIR where your commenting on this blog. Oh and they have a deal where you by 3 and get one free. Plus they have 10% off coupon codes.

              But here you go.


              I have used both and have had similar results with both. Oh and a bunch of good advice above and I myself would leave your gun alone. That is good groups to me.

                • Airfun,

                  My jaw dropped at 72/144!!!!. You must live in Siberia or somewhere just as remote. I (am) happy that you can get,.. what you can get though. Please keep us posted as things progress. Since you are limited on pellet selection, perhaps sizing the pellets through a die might be a viable option? Not ideal, but I would do it in a minute given your circumstances.

                • Airfun
                  Ok don’t know where you live. But why would they charge you twice for shipping one more tin of pellets?

                  Not trying to be nosey. But just trying to understand. Where do you live. What country basically. And if you can get Crosman pellets I’m not understanding why you can’t get the JSB pellets.

                  The Crosman pellets are available at Walmart stores by us. They only cost around 8 or so dollars. How much do you pay for Crosman pellets were you live?

                  • GF1,

                    I don’t know why they charge twice for two tins. When I saw the shipping on the 1 tin I thought to my self. “Guess I just have to order bulk to make the shipping worth it. But did not pan out.

                    I am from Guam.

                    Not a lot of people here have airguns. Mostly actual fire arms (shotguns). But even these are getting fewer and fewer. Seems like only families who hunt have firearms.

                    • Airfun,

                      Well, now that makes sense with Guam being in the middle of the Ocean. (Pacific to one side and Philippine Sea to the other.) You are in the same area as Siraniko (Philippines). It would not be surprising that everything would be expensive. I looked it up on Wikipedia and did a quick read. Plus, I have a 3’x5′ World map on the wall behind my desk. It is always a treat to hear from people in other parts of world and to hear of things that are unique to that area and to them.

                      Well, make the best of what you have and try to get some better stuff if you can. It is shooting real nice now. It will be interesting to see how it does at further distance (50,75,100 yards), if you can swing it.

                      Keep us posted.

                    • Airfun
                      Ok well maybe that’s why on the shipping.

                      And maybe the store where you get your Crosman pellets from buys in bulk.

                      And besides all that. Why worry anyway. Your gun is getting good results with the pellets your using. I think the thing is your able to shoot good and be happy you can shoot at all I suppose.

                      I say enjoy what you have. 🙂

            • Airfun,

              I guess I am a bit confused. You got an M-rod at a store and I assume ordered a Pellet Gage on line,.. but you can not order pellets on line. I would hate to be limited to just what the local stores offered. None even offer PCP’s, let alone know what they are. And,.. Crosman, Benjamin and Daisy brand pellets are all that are offered here too. I have order through P.A. if I want anything else.

              • Chris,

                Pellets from PA are crazy with shipping. $72 (actually $71.52). Bought my M-rod in a store, yes. For $900 with pump. To order from PA would have been just over $1200 with a pump. Pelletgage was $49 with $7 shipping.

                Also. My turn to have just woken up.


              • Chris,

                Well, GF1 had mentioned walmart. Never thought of that. I decided to check that website. One tin shipping here for $6.80 but three tins ship for only $2.43! But cant find jsb. Mostly crosman and H&N on the walmart website.


        • Airfun,

          I would have answered sooner but fell asleep. It has been about four years since the gen1 Marauders have been produced. The BP2264 is gen2.

          I do not know where you live but I would be happy with the groups you are getting with the Crosman pellets. At longer distances your gun may do better with the JSB pellets Gunfun provided the link to below.

          I agree with the rest of the folks and would leave the settings alone. Once you get your Chrony so you can compare the feet per second and develop a shot versus velocity string to compare to I would not change anything.


  16. B.B.,

    Something of note,… I was on the blog, hit the PA link at the top which opens a new window, went to PA and there was Chinese symbols scattered throughout. Nothing over the top, but around some of the areas where there would be conventional #’s. I closed out and ran 2 scans and it went away. Never had anything like that happen on any site.

    Just thought I would mention it,… Chris

  17. BB—I went to an auction yesterday. The only gun was a Sears Roebuck pump action bb gun. It was a Crosman V350 made for Sears. I have the Crosman M1 Carbine, so I stopped bidding when the bids reached $50-. —-Ed

  18. Hey guys,

    I need some advice regarding PCPs, magazines, and my Gamo Urban. My new BKL offset rings arrived Wed. I have remounted my UTG scope with the new rings. Yesterday I took the Urban down to my basement range and sighted in the scope. It only took a few clicks from where it was set to get it back on target.

    Now for the questions. I have shot about 6 or 8 magazines through the Urban. At least once or twice in each magazine load, the bolt feels as if it is not aligned with the pellet / breech perfectly and I have to fiddle with the bolt a bit to get the pellet to chamber. Maybe this is something that happens as things are breaking in? Or, is there a more serious problem? Secondly, during my shooting sessions I have experienced a misfire about 3-4 times. When I pull the trigger, the hammer releases and sounds like the reservoir has no air in it, just a thump with no pellet movement. I recock the bolt, pull the mag out, and retry again. It always fires on the second try. I reinstall the mag and everything seems normal again. It’s as though the hammer is not hitting the valve hard enough to open it. Again, could this be a breaking in issue? If not, I would like to know soon because I will return the Urban if these are actual defects. As this is my first PCP, I am not familiar with the nuances of them yet and so I am relying on my fellow bloggers to educate me. The Urban holds pressure very well at 3000 psi. No leak down whatsoever over several days. I’m still loving the small groups I am getting, if only at 15 yards. Thanks for the help guys.


    • Geo
      Maybe Halfstep will be able to say more about your miss feed and misfires. But don’t sound right to me.

      The only thing I can suggest is pull the bolt back harder when you cock it.

      And of course let us know if you find something.

    • Geo,

      That is some interesting issues of which I have no direct solution for. I would # the mags and note if the same one is giving you issues (and) also note which shot in the mag. that it occurred on,…. as a way of establishing some sort of repeatable problem. Second, make sure the bolt is pulled all the way back and pushed all the way forward.

      I am assuming that you have not adjusted the trigger? On the Maximus, depending on how it was adjusted, the sear could drag on the hammer as the is hammer released,… thus causing less power to strike the valve. Also, make sure you make a nice solid pull on the trigger. Too slow could cause the same drag effect. That is the Maximus trigger, but something there may be relevant. It is great now, but I did note that some mis-adjustment could cause some odd firing characteristics.

      • Thanks Chris,

        I only have the magazine the Urban came with. They cost $50 a pop so one is good enough for me. Good idea to note on which shot the bolt becomes difficult to push forward to chamber the pellet. Yes, I have tried making sure the bolt is pulled back all the way and pushing forward is the problem at times.

        I was going to try making a small trigger adjustment to get some of the creep out of the second stage but when I went to adjust the screw, it was all the way in and so no more adjustment left. I think I saw somewhere that a slightly longer screw would fix the creepy issue on Gamo CATs. The misfires are very strange though and I was wondering if anyone else had experienced that problem with PCPs.


        • Geo,

          Yes, that is a different mag. than the M-rod uses, but probably operates the same way. Ouch on the 50. That is ((wrong)) in my book. 20,.. ok. “Creep” sounds like a lube/polish issues. “All the way in”,… suggest that IS in fact all the way in,.. or,.. is stuck where it is at. (Loctite?) I assume?? that you know what the screw does that you were trying to adjust? If it moves, out may be better? There may be some stuff on line, but it is relatively new. You Tube stuff seems to show up the quickest.

          I’m sorry Bud,… without having it front of me,.. I am at a bit of a loss. Pull that trigger solid. Forget pulling the shot. Just do a solid, quick pull over and over and see if it happens. Being a PCP, you can do that empty. That would either eliminate,.. or,.. confirm sear drag on the hammer. If it has a trigger over travel adjustment for the trigger,… back that out and let it over travel a bit more.

          That is all I got. 🙁

          • Chris USA,

            Thank you for your ideas as regarding my Urban’s issues. Yeah, several have posted about the exorbitant cost of the mags at $50. I don’t really care as one is plenty for me. There are two screws in the trigger assembly which can be adjusted. According to the manual, the #1 screw is used to adjust the 1st stage length of travel and the #2 adjusts the 2nd stage for travel and weight. Stage #1 and #2 are independent of each other. I didn’t touch screw #1 but I did check screw #2. Clockwise is rotation reduces weight and travel. It was already maxed out clockwise. I rotated it counterclockwise though and turned easily. I just kept it at the original setting. There a lot of travel in the 2nd stage which I thought that I could possible reduce.

    • Geo791,

      Since the Gamo Urban was developed from a BSA, I would hazard a guess that the hammer might not be hitting the valve hard enough at times due to some lubrication sticking up the works from the cold temperature you are experiencing there. Just a guess. We don’t know if Gamo also copied the Harper slingshot to reduce/eliminate hammer bounce. If they did and it was lubricated the oil congealing due to the cold might be the answer.


      • Siraniko

        Thank you for your comments. I have not shot the Urban outside yet. It’s been too snowy and cold. All of my shooting so far has been down in my basement where the temperature is 64º +. So whatever lube BSA or Gamo used, it should not be congealing at that temp. Appreciate the thoughts though.


  19. /blog/2008/12/a-brief-history-of-spring-piston-airguns/?trk_msg=5P32SN71HF2K9E6O6NG0UM3HGC&trk_contact=ORGF0HC2D0H9UNN6TI43R7NQCC&trk_sid=8A6JH6R9DJJKRSBST7A4946QJC&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Tom+Gaylord+blog+on+Spring-piston+airguns&utm_campaign=Spring+Forward

    Toms history of springer air guns that was referenced in the latest Pyramyd ad. Fits well here. Fascinating.

  20. I just want to throw this out there: why not start with the 2260 when doing the mods on the 2240. most folks end up with a stock and longer barrel anyway.

    The 2260MB

    The 2260 would be a good place to start. The MB comes with the metal breech. I like the power curve for the 2240 better and I don’t think you would loose that much fps with the 2260 barrel and the 2240 valve.

    I have to admit I have not tried any of this. The only 2260 in the house is Kate’s and she likes it just the way it is. So any mods would need to be on another gun. If the only thing you did was add a Maximus barrel and tune the trigger it would be a better. It is already good as is out of the box.

    Is the big deal the $150 for the 2260MB? I have been thinking about this for a while and don’t see any negatives with starting out with the 2260MB.


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