by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Daisy Buck BB gun.
This report covers:
- Velocity
- Accuracy
- Oiled the gun
- Daisy Premium BBs
- Crosman Black Widow BBs
- Dust Devils
- Trigger pull
- Cocking effort
- The test
- Daisy BBs
- Crosman Black Widows
- Air Venturi Steel
- Hornady Black Diamond
- Dust Devils
- Discussion
- Summary
Velocity
Today we look at the velocity of the Daisy model 105 Buck BB gun. If you read Part 1 you know that Daisy advertises on the box that this gun develops 350 f.p.s., but I told you I didn’t think that was possible. The larger Daisy Red Ryder doesn’t even shoot that fast. Pyramyd AIR says 275 f.p.s., which agrees with Daisy’s website. Today we find out what the one I’m testing will do.
Accuracy
I’ll also test the accuracy of the gun today with the open sights that came with it. I’m doing that now because I’m getting ready to mount a scope on the gun using a brand new scope mount, the Little Buck Rail, that reader Terry Harman has created. So I’m packing a lot into this report to get us to that point. Let’s get going.
Oiled the gun
Before I started the test I oiled the BB gun with Crosman Pellgunoil. That may sound odd (oiling a Daisy gun with a Crosman product), but Pellgun oil is just 20-weight non-detergent motor oil with an o-ring preservative added. Daisy has long recommended using 20-weight motor oil to lube their BB guns and they don’t have a product of their own, so it isn’t as strange as it sounds.
Daisy Premium BBs
First up were Daisy’s own Premium Grade BBs. The first 10 averaged 238 f.p.s. The low was 231, and the high was 244 f.p.s. However I think you should see the entire spread.
Shot…….Vel
1………..240
2………..244
3………..244
4………..241
5………..239
6………..238
7………..232
8………..233
9………..234
10………231
What is happening? Why is the gun slowing down? I think the oil is spreading around and slowing things down. Every time I oil a gun it either slows it down, or, through detonation, speeds it up. I’m telling you this because of what happened next.
Crosman Black Widow BBs
This time, when I shot a different BB, the reverse happened. Let’s see what happened with Crosman Black Widow BBs.
Shot…….Vel
1………..233
2………..239
3………..Didn’t register
4………..237
5………..242
6………..243
7………..249
8………..250
9………..251
10………251
The average is 243 f.p.s.. The low was 233 and the high was 251 f.p.s. That’s an 18 f.p.s. spread, but from looking at the string you can see that the velocity is increasing as the gun is shot. I think the oil is now spreading around and thinning out, and the gun is coming back to full power. To see if that was right I shot the Black Widows a second time.
Shot…….Vel
1………..252
2………..254
3………..252
4………..254
5………..258
6………..259
7………..254
8………..255
9………..258
10………259
The average this time was 255 f.p.s. The low was 252 and the high was 259 f.p.s. That’s a difference of 7 f.p.s.
See how the velocity is rebounding? Okay, let’s try a faster BB.
Dust Devils
Dust Devil frangible BBs are lighter so they will probably go faster. Only if too much air escapes around them will they go slower.
Shot…….Vel
1………..268
2………..261
3………..267
4………..276
5………..277
6………..274
7………..277
8………..274
9………..270
10………269
The average was 271 f.p.s. The low was 261 and the high was 277, so a 16 f.p.s. spread. There is Pyramyd Air’s 275 f.p.s. number.
Yes, they went considerably faster. Now I wondered where the Daisy BBs that I shot first would be. Let’s see.
Daisy BBs
Shot…….Vel
1………..260
2………..261
3………..261
4………..242
5………..264
6………..260
7………..265
8………..263
9………..263
10………267
11………266
I shot 11 BBs this time. But this time they averaged 261 f.p.s. where the first time they averaged 238 f.p.s. That’s a 23 f.p.s. difference in the averages. That’s what oiling does to this BB gun! I’m not telling you not to oil the gun. Just know what to expect when you do — and that holds for all BB guns with a similar powerplant.
I didn’t shoot Smart Shot because I think the Buck is too weak for them. If you don’t want BBs rebounding, shoot Dust Devils.
The Buck seems to be about where Pyramyd AIR said it would be — 275 f.p.s. No matter what other BBs I try, if they are as uniform as these they will shoot at about the same velocity.
Trigger pull
The single stage trigger broke at between 5 lbs. 10 oz. and 6 lbs. 1 oz. It’s consistent but heavy for a child.
Cocking effort
Cocking is a kid-friendly 11 lbs. but the short lever makes it harder than it sounds. Little tykes will need to find their anchor points to cock this gun.
Accuracy test
Now let’s look at the accuracy. I will shoot 5-shot groups from 5 meters. If there are some tight groups I will also shoot 10 shots with that BB.
The test
I shot from 5 meters. I was seated and used the UTG monopod as a rest. I loaded 5 BBs of one type at a time, to keep all BBs the same for every target. I used a 6 o’clock hold with the fixed open sights. Let’s go.
Daisy BBs
I started with 5 Daisy BBs. Three landed in 0.476-inches but the other two opened the group to 2.808-inches at 5 meters. The group was fairly well centered on the bull.
Five Daisy Premium BBs went into 2.808-inches at 5 meters, with 3 in 0.476-inches. Every shot was held perfectly.
Crosman Black Widows
The second BB I tried was the Crosman Black Widow. Five went into 1.341-inches between centers at 5 meters.
Five Crosman Black Widow BBs went into 1.341-inches at 5 meters.
Air Venturi Steel
Next I tried 5 Air Venturi Steel BBs. They went into a group that measures 2.409-inches between centers at 5 meters.
The Buck sent 5 Air Venturi Steel BBs into 2.409-inches at 5 meters.
Hornady Black Diamond
The next BB I shot was the Hornady Black Diamond. It’s often the most accurate BB in my tests, but not this time. This time the Buck put 5 Black Diamonds in 4.508-inches at 5 meters. This is clearly the largest group of this test!
Five Hornady Black Diamond BBs made this 4.508-inch group at 5 meters. It is the largest group of the test.
Dust Devils
Next to be tested were the Dust Devil BBs. They usually shoot into larger groups, and after the Hornady group, I was concerned they might miss the BB trap altogether. Well, they didn’t. The Buck put 5 of them in 3.233-inches at 5 meters. It is the second-largest group of the test, but still more than one inch better than the Black Diamonds.
The Buck put 5 Dust Devil BBs in 3.233-inches at 5 meters.
Discussion
Well, none of the groups was very good. The Black Widow group was the best so far, at 1.341-inches, but even that wasn’t worth shooting another 10-shot group.
It seemed to me that the Buck liked larger BBs best. I even dropped an oversized Marksman BB into the muzzle, but it was too large to enter the bore. So the only things I could think of were the Daisy Avanti Match Grade BBs that we know are on the high side of the average BB size. They are also very uniform. The Buck put 5 of them into 2.2 inches at 5 meters.
Five Daisy Match Grade BBs went into 2.2-inches at 5 meters.
Summary
Okay, we found out that the Buck isn’t as fast as Daisy says, but it does shoot around 275 f.p.s., give or take. That’s all the velocity you need to shoot at soda cans.
The accuracy seems a bit lacking, but we still have to test this gun with a scope. Remember — that was what motivated me to test it in the first place. I normally don’t care to scope BB guns, but when I scoped a Red Ryder a few years ago I actually got better groups! That will be next.
I got a red rider lever action BB gun for my son a few years ago. But by the time he could use it he could cock an R7 without issue. I’ve tried a couple other youth rifles, but they didn’t really work out either. So R7 or HW30 for a youth rifle is my choice.
We’ve found that Daisy smoothbore barrels shooting steel BBs do NOT like oil. By simply swabbing out the barrel with a .177 cotton mop (or patches) dampened with alcohol will improve accuracy of an oil fouled barrel.
BB,
It was this kind of accuracy that shied me away from bb guns. My 99 changed that.
RR,
Ditto on the bb guns!
Our Slavia 618 pellet rifles were in the same power class (275-325 fps for a stock rifle) but being rifled, hitting bottle-caps at 10 meters was not a problem.
I have two 618s in the house – keep on wanting to see how well they would shoot with modern pellets. Guess I will have to search for my round tuit.
Don’t have a 99 but I am tempted to get one.
Hank,
Mine was made the first year, 1959. I can fill it with bbs and shoot until I am tired of shooting. In 1960 Daisy converted it to the 50 shot spring loaded magazine like the Model 25 pump. I prefer mine.
B.B.
Question: What do you think are the design issues that are causing the gun to spray bbs all over?
In looking at the velocities and considering that the gun was freshly oiled, the spread is not bad so I don’t think that the power-plant is part of the accuracy problem.
The 499 has a proven reputation as being an accurate BB gun so the whole platform has potential.
Yeah, the 499 is over 3 times the price of the Buck but if you would strip it down to the basic power-plant and barrel would it cost that much more to improve the accuracy of the Buck from terrible to so-so?
I know the Buck just a $30 gun (the P17 is the same price and you get accuracy, power and a decent trigger), surely Daisy has the engineering/manufacturing capability to do better.
Hank
Hank,
I’m pretty sure it is the fit of the BB to the barrel. Remember the 499 barrel is so tight that it takes the special Daisy BB several seconds to roll down to the magnet.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Daisy did something about it?
B.B.
B.B.,
Might the increase in velocity as you continued to shoot be from the friction of the action being worked heating things up? I shoot my Red Ryder at a much faster rate than I do my pellet guns because it is a repeater, and I haven’t verified this with my chronograph, but from the way it punches cans I am confident the velocity goes up a good ten percent at least as I shoot.
I do see the same with many of my pellet rifles, but as they are single shots, it is not as obvious a difference.
Michael
Michael,
Yes, I suppose that is possible. I do think spreading the oil out was the primary reason for the velocity increase, though.
B.B.
B.B.
If anything, this test might have shown that the new Crosman Black Widow bbs are not a renamed Hornady Black Diamond bb?
Doc
Doc,
That’s what I thought, too.
B.B.
Off Subject – you guys see that TR5 Pro on PA website?
Ict815,
I have one on order. The guarantee is a 3/4-inch group at 10 meters with Hobbys.
B.B.
That is exciting! Thanks…
There they go using those cool names again.
All I can say is this I got to see. So now they put a peep sight on it and charge more for it.
Boy oh boy if this one fails wonder how that will go over.
I think they should of just called it a TR5 and been done. Or maybe, and that’s a big maybe call it a mark 2. And just describe it as a fun plinking gun.
This will definitely be one to watch. And no way will I buy this one right off the bat till I see some reviews and how it performs. I’m hoping they don’t think the peep sight will improve it. And if they done something else they should say what the improvements were that helped it be more accurate.
This will be a good one to watch and see how the story develops. I’m a wait’n.
Me too. I will wait…but it’s hard to wait! I have a green one and it is plinker category.
Ict815
I have a black one. And had to do way to much to it just to make it a fair shooter. It’s still nothing spectacular.
And for me. Oh I can wait this time. I will be waiting to see how this one unfolds. I’m pretty skeptical after getting the first one and seen what it’s about.
But you never know. Maybe they found the magic with this new version. We will see. No doubt there.
I learned a lot reading about your efforts with it. Thank you (and everyone else)!
Ict815
I thank you. And I was just trying to get somewhere with it.
What I found out is I had different exspectations of the TR5. I thought it would be more like the Izzy 60/61 that everyone was comparing it to. So I started off on the wrong foot. That’s just what happens sometimes.
But this time around when the new TR5 Pro comes out I need to clear my mind and start out with a fresh look for this next version.
Trust me. I’ll be very excited if all goes well this time around. I’ll definitely be watching.
Oh and thanks for bringing the new one to our attention. Always interested in hearing about new stuff.
Tr5 gen 2.
I wonder what they had to have fixed on it.
The upgraded sights is in the $50 price difference.
45Bravo
That’s what I want to know too.
What they fixed this time around.
B.B,
I’m intrigued by the use of 20 weight motor oil/Crosman Pelgunoil to lubricate BB guns. Is that predominantly for the bore, or for the action, or for the Powerplant, or for some combination of the three?
I’ll thank Gunfun1 for the lead in:
“Always interested in hearing about new stuff.”
to my next item.
If the oil is for friction reduction then many shooters would try Molly in some form coating the round or the bore thinking it helps reduce friction. Our powderburning shooters, especially loading their own have/are moving away from Molly and turning to hexagonal Boron Nitride (hBN) is also known as ‘White Graphite’ for a number of reasons; one of which is bore to round fraction reduction.
Do you or any of the readership know of airgunners with any practical AIRGUN information/experience on/with this compound?
Thanks,
shootski
shootski,
Oil is to seal the piston for greater compression. That’s all.
Leave the bore dry if you can.
B.B.
B.B.,
Understood! Explains Cobalt327’s post too!
Thanks,
shootski
B.B.,
Even with my high tech “bench rest” set up, I was barely able to get anything smaller than you already achieved here (oh, I forgot to note I used Daisy BBs). Yet even though it’s no tack driver, I still like the little Buck…although I do admit I’d have been happier to get her a bit earlier…like say 55 years earlier. =)~
Thanks for reporting on these little spuds,
dave