by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The B3 underlever from China.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
This report covers:
- Refresher
- The test
- Sig Match Ballistic Alloy
- Sight adjustment
- On a roll?
- Air Arms Falcon
- POI change
- RWS R10
- Best for last
- JSB Exact RS
- Summary
Today was day of learning, or perhaps I should say remembering, because today’s test of the Chinese B3 underlever took me back to my early days with spring-piston air rifles. I will explain as the report unfolds.
Refresher
I found this tired old air rifle in a pawn shop many months ago. In this series I have replaced the breech seal with a faucet washer, opened up the powerplant, lubricated the moving parts with Tune in a Tube and shot the rifle for accuracy. That was when I discovered how accurate this old Chinese underlever is. So I vowed to shoot it for accuracy once more, now that the powerplant has been tamed.
The test
I shot the B3 from a sandbag rest at 10 meters. I used the artillery hold, with my off hand back by the front of the triggerguard.
Sig Match Ballistic Alloy
In the last test Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets were the clear favorites, so I started this test with them. I knew they were not zeroed, but I let that go for the first 10 shots. The first 5 of those shots gave a very tight group, but the final 5 opened up considerably. I was wearing reading glasses to see the front sight, but after the group was over I felt I hadn’t concentrated on the front sight well enough.
Ten Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets made this 1.027-inch group at 10 meters. The first 5 shots were almost half that size.
This is so much larger than the 10-shot group I shot with the same pellet in Part 4 that I knew something wasn’t right. In fact, that earlier 10-shot group was probably smaller than the first 5 shots on this day. I had to try again.
Sight adjustment
The Sig pellets hit to the left and a little below the aim point, so I adjusted the rear sight right and up. I also decided to just shoot 5-shot groups from this point so I could maintain my concentration on the front sight. This group did move up and to the right a little, but not as far as I had hoped. However, by concentrating on the front sight I managed to put 5 rounds into 0.328-inches at 10 meters. That’s a group!
On the second try, 5 Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets made this 0.328-inch group at 10 meters. It’s the best of the test.
On a roll?
I hoped this group was a forerunner of great things to come. I wanted to try a domed pellet next.
Air Arms Falcon
Next up was the Air Arms Falcon dome. I shot them in the velocity test after the lube (Part 6) and they did very well. But not on paper! Five Falcons made an astonishingly large 1.769-inch group at 10 meters.
Five Air Arms Falcons went into 1.769-inches at 10 meters.
POI change
That is a horrible 10-meter group, but look where its center is. It’s high and to the right of the center of the bull. I did not change the sights after the last group of Sig pellets This is what I meant when I said at the beginning that today’s test took me back to my early days with spring-piston air rifles. In those days you had to test all pellets — both for accuracy as well as for the point of impact. Each pellet had the potential to land in a completely different place, and you never knew where that was unless you tested them all. This B3 is from that time period, so I guess it’s performing like the old rifles did.
RWS R10
Since the Sig Match pellets are so accurate I wondered whether other match pellets might also be good. Of course I’ll never know unless I test them all, but for today’s test I shot the RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets. While they are still expensive, they are half the price of the Sig Match pellets, so I was hoping they would be good in the B3.
Five R10 pellets went into 0.361-inches at 10 meters, which makes them very accurate. On top of that, they moved to almost dead-center on the bull without any sight adjustment! This group is dramatic in two ways!
Five RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets made this 0.361-inch group that’s very close to being centered.
Best for last
The B3 rifle is showing a level of accuracy I have never seen in any other Chinese underlever from this timeframe. I have heard people make claims like this, but I always wrote them off as random groups. Now I see different. But I still wondered whether I could get accuracy with a domed pellet that I would be more likely to shoot in this rifle, and also one that is more affordable.
JSB Exact RS
The pellet that came to mind was the JSB Exact RS dome. They are a premium pellet, but also affordable to those who value accuracy. They are often accurate in lower-powered spring guns, which the B3 certainly is. They seemed perfect for this test.
Five RS pellets went into a group measuring 0.421-inches between centers at 10 meters. And just as good, they went high and are almost exactly centered with the bull. That means I can adjust the rear sight back down and be perfectly sighted in. This is the pellet for the B3!
Five JSB Exact RS pellets landed in a group measuring 0.421-inches between centers at 10 meters. Better than that, the group is almost centered, left to right, and about 1.2-inches high.
Notice how much the groups have shifted around the target since I did the one and only sight adjustment after the first 10-shot group with Sig pellets. I wasn’t expecting to see so much movement, but it brought back the good old days when this was the way pellets behaved.
Summary
This has been an interesting journey. I took a cheap Chinese air rifle that wasn’t worth $30 when new and installed a new breech seal in 15 minutes without disassembly. That got the old girl back on her feet. Then I lubed it to the point of smooth shooting. I did lose a significant amount of speed with the Tune in a Tube, but the gun still shoots in a comfortable place for me. And it is now very calm.
I found not one but three good pellets. Who knows how many others might still be out there? I had planned to end the series with today’s test, but after seeing these results I want to back up to 25 yards and have one more go. So, stay tuned!
Wow, B.B.! That 0.328″ group is amazing! It will be interesting to see what happens at 25 yards. =D
B.B.,
Just goes to show that all myths have a factual basis.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I hope not. There are some pretty wild myths out there.
RidgeRunner,
The grain of truth will be there even if it turns out to be one shot groups. Making mountains out of molehills and overestimating the distance shot like 30 yards when it actually is only 10 yards.
Siraniko
Outstanding job.
Now that’s how a inexpensive air rifle is supposed to shoot.
If you don’t intend to keep it, please bring it to the Texas airgun show with my name on it.
I will be there to buy it.
Ian
Ian,
If you will remind me closer to the show I will at least bring it so you can shoot it there.
B.B.
Gladly.
B.B.,
I was very surprised to see this gun pop up again. Fine shooting. Looking forwards to the 25. I have had different new pellets in new guns shoot to a different POI, so your comment was a bit confusing. I find it not uncommon at all. In fact, I expect it. Springers and PCP’s. But, that is my experience.
Good Day to you and to all,….. Chris
Chris,
Do not feel bad. It is not just you.
I know a local old gentleman who has several of these for sale. The prices he has on them will insure he has them for quite some time to come. I bought my 101 from him, but because it was not working at the time the price was not too outrageous. I hope to check him out again this summer and see what else he has stashed away. Maybe I can find another diamond in the rough.
RR,
Maybe you should leave the local gentleman your contact info and a list of what you might be willing to pay for the particular rifle(s). When he realizes that he is not going to get his outrageous price from anybody he may contact you to make a sale.
Good luck with finding those diamonds 🙂
Hank
Hank,
For one thing, I have no desire to own one of these no matter what the price. When I have the chance and some spare change I will look him up and see if I can rummage through what he has. We will see if there is a diamond in there.
Good morning!
Does anyone have any theory on why different pellets will have a different POI?
My guess (haven’t tested it out) is that the pellet group is flying in a spiral and that at a consistent distance differences in weight and fit in the bore for different brands result in a POI that hits at a different location on the circumference of the circle.
B.B. Would you try shooting 3-shot groups (with the SIGs at the same target) at 5, 15, 25 and 35 FEET to see if the pellets are spiraling? Thanks!
Happy Monday all!!
Hank
Hank,
Spiraling, mass and fit can indeed produce the results that you are surmising. These results can also be affected by the ballistic coefficient of the pellets in question. The spiraling may not be what is producing the results however. I have seen this affect many times in the past and as the range increased, the affect increased also yet retained the same general pattern at least until the pellet trajectory began to drop markedly.
RR
I agree with what you just said. There are many reasons why one brand or type of pellet fly’s different than another.
It is what it is.
Hank,
This sounds like a test for you to conduct. Tell us everything, because we are all interested.
B.B.
B.B.
I would be glad to do this test but none of my rifles has shown this tendency with the pellets that I have tried to date (will check to see if I can fine one that does).
Seen group sizes change between brands and POI will move up and down with changes in weight but I haven’t noticed any radical changes in POI like you are showing.
I regularly see my pellets in flight as they show up as streaks of light against the dark logs that make up my backstop. Occasionally I will see a weirdo but for the most case its a straight arching flight down range.
If you would like to send me the B3 I would be glad to do some detailed testing and even do a blog on making a new stock for it 🙂
Hank
Hank
I can see my pellets fly at times too.
What I see is there is a right to left curve as well as the up down curve as the pellet fly’s. The farther the distance the more I can see it. And I have checked on calm days too and seen the same. I think the rifling twist in the barrel has something to do with it too.
B.B.,
How can you pass up Hank’s offer? It does not get any better than that. That is like a free two-fer. Heck, a three-fer. A POI study, a stock making tutorial and a new stock.
The entire topic of POI shift (at same and different rages) is very interesting,… and complex. I think that my TX had the best data, which I no longer have. You could do exhaustive testing and still not come up with a definitive answer. Or,.. you may get a definitive answer for just (that) rifle.
Perhaps the most definitive answer is to just,… adjust accordingly? If your super accurate whammy mega blaster hits on at 10 yds., a bit left at 25, and a bit right at 50,… then you simply adjust the scope or your hold accordingly? You don’t ask why,.. you just do it.
Just a guess, but I would bet that is what a professional field target shooter does. Just a guess though.
Chris
Chris
I think you just described knowing how your gun shoots.
I have shot at different distances and noticed the left right shift depending on distance.
I think that’s one of the things you notice as you become a better shooter and spend time with a given gun.
I’m curious to see what’s going to happen when I get my peep setup for my HW30s. I know I see the side to side shift with some scoped guns. And I have to say that I have not done that with the open sights on the HW30s or with my red dot sight. But I am going to try to document some targets with the HW30s with the peep set up from 10 yards out to 50 yards at every 10 yards like I have done with my scoped guns in the past. I use to make my cheat sheet with hold over and under and left or right hold. What I did find was that the left to right hold usually fell within my 1″ kill zone I was after. So it is something good to know.
Oh and I did get a email from Champions Choice about the Gehmann 510s peep and what adapter to use to fit the Williams sight I got from PA. It’s the MA585 thread adapter. And I just ordered today. They are located in Kentucky. So I should get it pretty quick here to Illinois.
And I ended up getting the 510 instead of the 510s. The only difference is the 510 is all matte black where as the 510s is silver matte and black matte. I didn’t what no light catching the sight so that’s why I went all black.
GF1,
Keep us posted on the peeps and the POI shift testing. VERY interested.
Yup,… know how (your) gun shoots! That,.. by the way,… takes a whole lot of shooting! You know. Me?,… not so much. Great results don’t come free,.. ehh? 😉
Chris
Great results definitely don’t come free.
B.B.,
Your shift in POI ha had some pretty good theories on cause postulated!
I’m going to throw in mine as BARREL HARMONICS.
Could you throw a few pellets down range using an adjustable barrel weight?
If you don’t have one that fits you could also use a blob of ductseal formed into a ring around the barrel.
Just an idea that the inquiring minds of your Blog readers might like to see on a airrifle that is a blatant POI shifting example. Great series on making a sow’s ear into a Silk Purse!
Thank you,
shootski
shootski,
Oh my gosh! You guys are curious fellers, aren’t ya?
Let me get the 25-yard test finished and then we can talk about what I might do next.
B.B.
I agree with Shootski. My theory is that the barrel muzzle is moving in a roughly circular – or spiral – fashion during the firing cycle. Different pellets would exit the barrel at different times based on weight and fit, so the POI seems to move around. Once in the air the pellets should move in pretty much in a dropping curve unless seriously unbalanced. My guess is that better rifles, and particularly lower powered units, have better control of these harmonic vibrations and so seem to shoot well with most pellets. I have an HW-30S that fits the latter group.
As I said, just my theory – disagreements accepted.
Henry
Shootski
I have not had any convincing evidence that adjustable barrel weights help accuracy. Have only tried it on 2 rifles so my experience is limited. Thought I had the secret using one with an M8 but never have been able to confirm the accurate first 10 shot group at 25 yards. I really would like to be proven wrong. Maybe some rifles’ harmonics can be helped with a movable weight and some can’t.
Thanks
Decksniper
Decksniper,
On the Hunter Maximus, I have done the muzzle cap (stock), an air stripper and a baffle insert from a springer (all screw on) and I can tell you that there is a ((definite)) difference in POI. That is not the same as weights,… but I do believe that it does have an impact on harmonics.
I have also moved the barrel band on my Maximus and found that moving it 3 1/2″ to the rear improved the groups very noticeably to the point that I left it there.
I am not really saying anything definitive here,…. but I will say that harmonics DO play in into things.
100% verification of no pellet clipping issues.
Chris USA,
I am replying to the computer questions you asked, and there was no room to answer you.
First of all, Ccleaner and Malwarebytes are NOT antivirus programs. Ccleaner is a utility program to clean junk files from the system. These are temporary internet files, cookie files (that track you), and many other files. Malwarebytes address malware. Probably 90% or more of the infections today are from malware, not technically viruses. Both of these programs are run manually. The free versions, which I recommend, do not monitor in real time and do not afford real-time protection. And no, Norton 360 would not need to be switched off when running them. You are correct in your thinking that you should never run two antivirus programs simultaneously. That would really slow a system down.
I am not a Symantec (Norton products) fan. I liken the paid antivirus programs to protection money. Pay them money and they will see to it that you are not infected. I will tell you that NO antivirus program can protect you 100%…none of them. Think about this…over 100,000 new threats come online every day! Have you heard of “zero day threats”? Those are the threats that infect your system before the antivirus companies can respond with a definition file to protect against it. So actually you are vulnerable to malware infections anyway. Also, Norton and McAfee consume a lot of Windows resources which also slows down your computer. You can have so much protection that you can’t do anything…makes no sense.
Windows 10 comes with Defender included, which by the way Norton will turn off. Defender is a perfectly adequate antivirus program if you do due diligence, and run a diagnostic program like Malwarebytes routinely depending on how much time you spend on the internet. I run diagnostics a couple times a month. I have not gotten a virus, or any serious malware, in years. I use Windows 7 with Microsoft Essentials as my real-time antivirus and Window’s firewall. That’s it.
I make a lot of online credit card purchases and have never been compromised. Credit cards are much more likely to be compromised in everyday use. I use PayPal to make my purchases on ebay and that works well too…never had a problem. I make lots of online purchases from Amazon and they are a great online store with excellent customer service. I use, and recommend using, a password manager to keep track of all passwords. I use LastPass myself but there are others available too. Never store banking site passwords in your browser…not ever! Those are very easily hacked. I turn the browser password saving off totally. I’ve used online banking for over twenty years and have never had an issue. It’s much safer than sending checks in the mail and once you use it, you will never go back. Be very careful of links in emails which can take you to counterfeit web sites that appear legitimate. They fool many people into giving out their personal information. Always log directly into any banking web sites and do not follow links in emails. This is basic 101 being safe on the internet. I know…very long answer to a few simple questions. There I go again…can’t stop.
Be safe,
Geo
Geo,
Thank you for your time. Maybe I will give some of this ago this long weekend coming up. Sounding good.
Decksniper
I’m with Chris on the barrel bands. It does make the poi change. Muzzle weights help also.
Chris and Gunfun1
I think the problem is I’m trying to get an inaccurate rifle to shoot straighter by using an adjustable barrel weight. Wishing I could but no luck so far.
Decksniper
Decksniper
I’m thinking more than one barrel weight is needed. Reading your comment it sounds like your using one adjustable weight.
Thinking back on my Discovery’s I had I used 2 barrel bands in multiple locations as well as no barrel band and just one barrel band. I got better results using one or two barrel bands verses none.
I think that takes some experimenting to come up with good results. Definitely time consuming.
Gunfun1
Interesting. I have thought about trying two weights in varying locations. Yeah, time consuming but fun stuff especially if it works. What does a barrel band look like? An old Springfield stock to barrel metal strap? Someone (maybe you) said the M8 barrel harmonics may be inconsistent and causes inaccuracy.
Thanks for your responses.
Decksniper
Decksniper
It’s what holds the barrel in place on the main tube on a lot of Crosman and Benjamin guns.
BB
I just posted a picture of a 2240 and it didn’t accept. I tryed the other day also with no luck.
And it wasn’t because of sizing. It was a down load of the 2240 picture on the PA page.
Gunfun1,
I will give it a go.
Mike
And it even worked, swiped from PA 2240 page.
Mike
Mike
Thanks. And that’s what I did. Same picture as I was posting. I’m going to try again. Maybe I didn’t give the down load long enough.
Hmm
Still didn’t work.
GF1,
The pictures on the website are too large for this blog. Size them in Photoshop to 560 pixels wide by 730 pixels tall.
B.B.
BB
I know about the sizing. But I’m sure I posted pictures of a gun from PA before and didn’t have to size them down. Only pictures I ever had to size down was the ones I have taken.
And it’s obviously on my end sonce Mike got the picture of the 2240 to post. Oh well I’ll try at some time again. I’m sure I’ll want to post something.
Gunfun1,
I just copied the picture from the PA website to my desktop and then posted it, it is actually a small picture 92.5 kb.
Mike
Mike
Same as I do with my phone. I never had any problems before till lately.
I’m going to try a picture of the Fortitude right now and see what happens.
Mike
Nothing again.
Maybe we are too thin on the thread here.
I’m going to go to the bottom and post and see what happens.
Shootski
Read my comment above to Vana2.
I think the shift is caused by the rifling twist in the barrel along with other things like fit and shape of pellet and velocity and so on.
Had a guy that used to belong to the field target club I belong to. He had a beat-up Diana 54 in a beat-up Diana 52 stock that that he wanted $500 for-the other club members said was worth $350 at best. He wanted almost new prices for used guns. Needless to say, he didn’t leave with much money on his pockets.
If this B3 is like mine, it has room for a short scope like a Bug Buster in the dovetail for the rear sights.This would sllow you to really wring the rifle out at 25 yards.
Brent
Prayers for Birdmove,.. in Hawaii and living on the island that is erupting. Last word was that he was 12 miles away from the action. Maybe he will chime in with an update in the near future?
Thanks Chris
I am also woried about Birdmove. Thoughts and prayers that he and his are well.
Gerald
B.B.
I love it, cheap gun likes expensive pellets….
-Y
B.B.
Please forgive me for the lengthy off topic posts regarding computer usage. I can get carried away with this subject of which I am very passionate. I wouldn’t blame you if you banned me from posting…but please don’t. I’ll try to be good and not take up so much space on the blog. I’m just trying to share some needed information to help our fellow bloggers be better computer users.
George,
Help them all you can.
B.B.
B.B.
Thank you. I just didn’t want to step on any toes. I know this is an airgun blog, not a computer help center.
I appreciate that you welcome the help. 🙂
Geo791,
If you could read the past comments of a couple of years ago of other off topic commenters your lengthy responses barely holds a candle to them. Your responses speak of how much you would like to give back to the community and I thank you for them.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Thank you for the kind words…and yes, I have a gift and I am obligated to share what I am able. I feel a personal connection with many of the folks here on the blog…it’s become an important part of my day.
On the subject of poi shifts with different pellets, that is a different subject than accuracy. I think many of the same factors affect both pellet poi shift and accuracy. All of the factors mentioned can have affects on both and can be combined in a multitude of combinations of gun and pellet. That is what makes it such a challenge to addess either poi shift or accuracy for a particular gun.
I have often seen certain pellets make an obvious spiral in some guns. My Marauder with the original barrel regularly would have a large spiral with certain pellets. I usually shoot from shade into sun and back to shade making it easier to see the pellet. B.B. said if I remember correctly said the pellet spiral is caused by a wabble/precession instabiliy of the pellets spin.
Don
Don
What do you mean by a large spiral. Like what I was talking about above. A left to right arch at the same time as a up down arch.
In other words the bellwt moves to the right and down as it fly’s.
GF1,
In the worst cases the bullet followed a cork screw path. I am pretty sure they all were clockwise looking down range. None made a complete circle but some were over 180 degrees. Some of my groups were approaching 6 inches at 36 yards if my memory is correct. So I would say the corkscrew was on a similar dimension.
Your description sounds similar. My Marauder is the only gun that I have seen this dramatic of a spiral pellet flight. The vertical height of the pellet path was higher than the normal trajectory would be.
Don
Don
Yep that’s what I’m talking about but not that bad. At 50 yards probably a 1/8″. Out at a hundred maybe 3/4″ on the side to side arch. That’s pretty dramatic what your talking about. I have seen that with a bad crown. But again not as bad as your saying.
I remember hearing Steve Scialli at AEAC in one of his video reviews speaking about the pellet spiraling but I can’t recall the specifics about it. I believe he called it “corkscrewing”.
I have read that this spiraling can happen in powder burners also. The author reasoned that it happens when the bullet enters the rifling canted. Could the pellet have the same cause?
Gerald
The next to last line in paragraph 4 should read, ” The amount to the left in the first group was just about equal to the move RIGHT in the second group.”
Half
All this focus on the groups moving in BB’s accuracy test finally got to me.
I have a B3. I have JSB Exact RS pellets. I have RWS R10 Pistol pellets. And I have a Jaw Horse Portable vise and a 12 yard indoor range. I mixed all that together and came up with this. I’ll leave it to each of you to assign your own value to it.
I fired 5 shots of the RS pellets then 5 shots of the R10s. The R10s hit low and left of the point where the RS pellets grouped. Next I flipped the gun upside down and clamped the barrel in the rubber jaws of the vise. They have a v notch that runs their length and the barrel was in it. This left the under lever on top where It would be free to move through its cocking stroke. I had to get on my knees to load the gun so I hope you older fellas feel a little appreciation for the up and down routine I went through to first cock while on my feet and then get down on my knees for loading. 🙂 After 5 shots with each pellet the R10s hit high and right relative to the RS pellets, which is what you would expect since the barrel was upside down for the second groups.
The vise jaws are 8 inches long and the barrel has 15 inches protruding from the hinge block, so more than half the barrel length was clamped in the vise and centered there. I think that arrangement took harmonics in the barrel out of the picture. That was my intent, at least. The groups were more open when I was controlling the gun (imagine that) than when I had it held in the vise. Also the R10 pellets hit lower in the right side up group than they hit high in the upside down group, owing to the effects of gravity in the first group. the amount to the left in the first group was just about equal to the move left in the second group. The change in group location was not quite as dramatic as BB’s results to begin with but it was easy to see the shift, all the same.
I think that this demonstrates that, in this instance, the R10 groups moved for reasons other than harmonics in the barrel. I may do some more of this at a later date. This was something I threw together on a lark and I think I may want to do something that was thought out more in the future.
Half
Half,
You may know this but your test resembles one done by Dr. Mann with a Pope barrel. Pope made him a cylindrical action so he could rotate the barrel through 360 degrees. He did quite a few experiments with that rig.
B.B.
BB,
I didn’t know that but I do know I’m finding more true all the time, as you frequently point out, there is nothing new under the sun.
Half
Halfstep
That’s why I believe it has more to do with the rotation of the pellet from the rifling in the barrel and gravity all working together.
But on the other hand with my Maximus and two Discovery’s I had. By moving the barrel bands and adding another barrel band and trying a combination of different locations I was able to get smaller group sizes. But did not change poi. The pellet still had the same arch and right hand side to side movement like I have said already here.
GF1,
I didn’t and still don’t, for that matter, know what causes it in all cases, but in this case I think I was able to eliminate harmonics as the cause. What causes those wild fliers you always seem to get when you have a nice tight 9 shot group going?
By the way, I got a 3/16″ group with the JSB RS pellets and 5/8 for 5 shots with the RWS R10s at 12 yards. That was in the vice. They opened up about triple when I did my own resting and sighting. Don’t really know where to hold this gun and I wasn’t wearing my reading glasses, so I could probably shoot tighter if I tried for awhile.
Half
Half,
Very interesting. The upside down test was interesting. I (do) appreciate kneeling. My knee’s ain’t the best.
What happens at different distances I wonder? Does the POI end up at a different area? Does the spiral continue and also expand? If 3 different pellets end up at 2,6 and 10 O’Clock at 40 yards,… do the same 3 end up at 6, 10 and 2 O’Clock at 50 yards? Or,…10/20, 20/30, 30/40. (clockwise rotation)
Keep us posted. You do good testing and nice data charting.
ChrisU
I would have preferred to have the barrel in its normal attitude if it had been possible to clamp and cock it that way. The results would have been more of an apples to apples comparison that way. My main intent was to get the barrel clamped, thereby removing harmonics from the equation. It was really a pretty “quick and dirty” test. I have a RWS Model 52 that is a side lever, of course, and would lend itself to an upright firing position in my vise. If I can find some pellets that shoot to different POIs from it I may repeat this experiment with it, at a later date.
Half
Mike In Atl
I moved down here. Let’s see if I can get the picture of the Fortitude to load down here. Then I’ll try one of my pictures I have just to see.
Nothing. Now one of my pictures.
Well that worked. I’ll try the Fortitude again.
Mike
I even tryed the Fortitude picture saved on my drive and still wouldn’t post. I’ll see if it will post if I size it down like BB said.
Ok that worked. So BB was right I did need to size the PA picture down to post it.
Gunfun1,
That is odd, I did not resize the 2240 picture, let me try the Fortitude, shows 35.5 kb.
I also notice 20% off for the Birthday sale, sweet.
Mike
Worked without resizing, do not know why you are having that issue, but if resizing works I say go with it.
Mike
Mike
Don’t know either. As I mentioned I do have to size pictures I take. But don’t recall sizing from the PA pages.
Oh well. I just size them down to from now on.
Mike
Oh and that 20% off would be nice if the Fortitude was in stock.
Gunfun1,
I think you get the discount even if it is not in stock, and you should have it in hand by the end of the first week of June.
My thought is it will be as good as the Maximus with a full shroud and 10 round magazine with regulator, they claim 70 shots per 3000 psi fill.
Really tempting, making me think about grabbing it.
Mike
Mike
Never ordered anything with it out of stock to know if the discount still applies. But that sounds right. And if they don’t push the available date out farther. You know how that goes.
But is this 20% off sale site wide or certian brands? Is Benjamin one of those brands without me looking? If it is site wide plus the free shipping I should order me some more pellets.
And if I didn’t already have my Maximus and regulator I would probably be getting a Fortitude.
GF1,
Yea, super tempting. It is included. I hope they extend the 20% sale through the holiday (HINT). A mid week sale does not give the average working Joe time to ponder. I have nothing on my list at the moment, but I think that 20% is the biggest % off I have ever seen.
Chris
I would say if you really wanted one I would grab it now with this sale. Or is it over already? I didn’t pay attention this time to the ending date.
Sadly the sale ended this morning at 3 am.
Hopefully Memorial day will bring another, 20%? would be nice.
Mike
Mike
I didn’t think the sale was for very long. And agree hope they have a memorial day sale.
Gunfun1,
Fairly sure that there will be a Memorial day sale, July 4th sale, Labor Day sale, Thanksgiving day sale and a Christmas sale, seems they do it every year.
But this was the Birthday sale, I don’t think the others will be 20%.
Mike
Mike
Yep I believe your right.
Mike,
Well,… there should be. At least extend (this) one over the Memorial Day holiday/weekend. It might get me off my butt and spending some hard earned cash.
Chris,
I hope there is a Memorial Day sale, like I said doubt it will be a 20% but it should be something off, gotta remember Josh has a company to run and profit is kinda important.
I am sure they still make money during sales, just not as much.
Mike
Mike,
Yea,… profit “might” be kind of important to the overall picture and continuance of the business. 😉 Still,…. just a few more days? 😉
I am thinking more along the lines of Birthday/Holiday Weekend!
Chris,
Birthday is over and as far as holiday weekend, well, it is Memorial Day which to me is a rather somber day of reflection, remembering all of those who have given their all for us to enjoy the freedom we have.
As they say all gave some, some gave all.
Mike
BB,
I still don’t understand why this B3 cocks heavier than a Beeman R9 for the power output of a P1. Is that typical for a B3? I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a springer with a higher cocking effort to power ratio.
Bob,
All underlevers have less favorable cocking linkages and usually do cock harder. Thjis one is typical of B3s.
B.B.